Department for Work and Pensions written question – answered at on 6 April 2016.
Lord Jones of Cheltenham
Liberal Democrat
To ask Her Majesty’s Government, for those countries and territories in which those in receipt of the UK state pension are subject to the frozen pensions regulations, what is the process necessary to negotiate reciprocal agreements for pensions to be uprated annually.
Baroness Altmann
The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions
There are a number of considerations around whether to initiate the negotiation of reciprocal agreements for pensions and other social security benefits. These include reciprocity between the social security systems in the respective countries, the movement of people between the two countries, and the affordability of concluding and administering an agreement.
Yes0 people think so
No22 people think not
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Annotations
George Morley
Posted on 7 Apr 2016 2:54 pm (Report this annotation)
Baroness Altmann, surely it is time for the Pensions Minister to give the correct information when answering a question in Parliament ?
There is no necessity for an agreement or anything else and the Minister should know that this is purely a domestic policy by the current government.
The pension is the property of the pensioner and the UK government do not need to negotiate with any other government over the administration of the state pension because it is purely up to the government, nobody else, as this red herring has been well and truly cooked over the years.
Please let us have honesty in parliament and if the Minister cannot do that then she must go as this statement is a lie.
NO reciprocity is required ! Even Steve Webb knew that !
George Morley
Posted on 7 Apr 2016 3:20 pm (Report this annotation)
The Minister is should know that Canada has asked but been refused any discussion about pensions many times ? Why ? This is democracy Conservative style and to hell with the equality for pensioners and any justice except when it comes to their own interests !
Jeff Chipps
Posted on 7 Apr 2016 3:30 pm (Report this annotation)
This might answer Lord Jones's question than Ros Altmann did. It's from a Social Security Select Committee Memoradum.
"It would clearly be impractical to negotiate bilateral agreements with each of the other countries in the world where people draw British state retirement pensions, and in any case unnecessary; a simple change in British law could enable upratings to be paid in any or all overseas countries, provided the political will was there to do so."
There a whole lot more from politicians of every party that says 'agreements' aren't required. Maybe the Minister for Pensions should be briefed better!!
Dennis Purvis
Posted on 7 Apr 2016 4:14 pm (Report this annotation)
It is a well documented fact, that the only reason for UK governments, past and present, to uprate pensions in countries where they are frozen, is their unwillingness to do so. Baroness Altmann knows this. She was very supportive of frozen pensioners prior to her elevation to the H.O.L.and appointment to the position of pensions minister, so I wish to ask her, Why the sudden about face?
Jane Davies
Posted on 7 Apr 2016 4:21 pm (Report this annotation)
Why does Ms Altmann evade the truth when she should know, as she is Pensions Minister, that NO reciprocal agreements are needed to pay frozen pensioners their rightful annual indexing?
Freedom of Information, number 595/2013, confirms no RA's are needed in order for the UK government to pay it's own citizens the pensions they have paid for. But then Ms Altmann does really know this as she was for many years an advocate for the frozen pensioners and campaigned for the ending of this scandal.
Pensions belong to the pensioners who have paid into the NI scheme over a lifetime, it is not down to government largess and it is not a benefit and it is not right that a government be allowed to withhold 4% of pensioners cost of living increases and uprate the 96% just based on where they retire for whatever reason.
Shame on you Ms Altmann for parroting DWP lies and deception, and shame on you for abandoning the victims of this downright injustice.
Jeff Chipps
Posted on 7 Apr 2016 4:44 pm (Report this annotation)
The Freedom of Information Request that Jane Davies spoke of states this......
"Bi-lateral agreements are not necessary in order for pensions paid outside Great Britain and the EU to be up-rated."
As I said previously and I'll put it capitals for Ms Altmann's ease, THERE IS NO LACK OF SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION TO SHOW THAT RECIPROCAL AGREEMENTS ARE NOT NEEDED TO PAY INCRESES TONSTATE PENSION WORLDWIDE.
George Morley
Posted on 7 Apr 2016 5:12 pm (Report this annotation)
When will the Minister reject these incorrect statements and when will Mr Crabb denounce this supposed requirement in the literature of the DWP ?
Anne Puckridge
Posted on 7 Apr 2016 5:21 pm (Report this annotation)
Memory failing, Dame Ros? Perhaps these words of yours will help to restore it!
In CityAM, Jan. 2013: 'In future, everyone should pay the same rate of National Insurance and be paid the same state pension'.
On 12 and 22 April 2015: 'I have supported your case on many occasions . . . I do admire your campaign . . . I will certainly try to raise this issue if the Tories win. I have supported your case before.
On 18 Jan 2016: 'Our pension reforms will give everyone a better retirement' .
So, Dame Ros, when will EVERYONE, including the frozen pensioners whose campaign you 'admired' just last year, get the promised 'SAME STATE PENSION ' and 'BETTER RETIREMENT?'
Brian Corrigan
Posted on 8 Apr 2016 4:09 am (Report this annotation)
As pension minister Ms Altman I'm afraid is a great disappointment. Not only is she Going back on her previous statements regarding her stance on the frozen pension issue,she is now making statements without checking the facts on reciprocal agreements . The DWP has already stated that there are no requirements for any agreements. The House of Lords is a debating chamber and as such a person of Ms Altman's standing should be advised to come prepared with the correct information.
Andy Robertson-Fox
Posted on 8 Apr 2016 11:39 am (Report this annotation)
There are many annotations here which demonstrate how the answer given by the Minister fails to answer the question posed by Lord Jones.
I will not cover that ground again except to point out that the stock response by Baroness Altmann and her department that the government meets its obligations required by the law and reciprocal agreements (both of which are totally unnecessary) does not constitute jutification for the policy. They are only convenient vehicles on which to hang the iniquity.
The baroness could also have said that the government has previously disclosed that it has no intention to enter into any reciprocal agreement over pensions at any time in the future.
The Baroness could also have said that implementing the uprating is a simple process whereby those who have met the same NI contribution conditions as everyone else during their working lives are treated equally, fairly and justly in retirement; that what other governments choose to do is their problem and irrelevant and that it is only irrational intervention by successive governments that provides the excuse for suggesting it is actually complicated.