I beg to move,
That this House
has considered e-petition 200000 relating to British Sign Language being part of the national curriculum.
It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Austin. Last September, I had the pleasure of meeting Erin, a young woman involved in the National Deaf Children’s Society. Erin told me very clearly that many young people like herself who are deaf feel strongly that British Sign Language should be taught in schools, and that it should become a GCSE subject. As a result, more young people would be able to learn BSL, and it would be properly recognised as a language qualification, equal to other GCSEs. Erin’s determination, and her clear explanation of why BSL should be a GCSE subject made a lasting impression on me. When today’s petition, created by Wayne Barrow, who is in the Gallery, came before the Petitions Committee, I was keen to speak on it, and to introduce it on behalf of Wayne, the many other petitioners and Erin.
Other hon. Members on the Committee were very conscious that, although the petition had not reached 100,000 signatures, which is the normal threshold, the issue should be considered by the House, because it is difficult to ask for 100,000 signatures when fewer than 100,000 people speak BSL as their first language. The Committee was also very keen that the debate be signed, so that young deaf people, and the not so young, could follow the debate as it happened—a first for a live debate in this House. I hope it is the first of many, as Parliament reaches out and becomes more inclusive. I thank our signers, the Committee and the House staff who made it possible.
What a day to be holding this debate, after the British film “The Silent Child” won the Oscar for best live-action short film last night. Furthermore, the acceptance speech by actress Rachel Shenton was signed—another achievement, and another step forward.
The hon. Lady is making a powerful speech. Maisie Sly, the six-year-old actress in the film, who is profoundly deaf, is one of my constituents. The mainstream state school that she goes to has embraced sign language, which has really inspired lots of young people, who want to take it up. As the former Minister for Disabled People, I know that we have a chronic shortage of BSL interpreters in this country. If we can tap into that inspiration, we can solve more problems and help people like Maisie, whom we are very proud of in Swindon.
While I was training to become a primary school teacher during the early 2000s, I completed a placement in a mainstream primary school that had fully embraced the integration of all children. Teachers spoke with a special microphone that was tuned into the children’s implants, and every session was signed. All the children benefited, and I benefited as a teacher; everyone benefits from this. I also congratulate Rachel Shenton and Maisie—what an amazing achievement. Let us hope that we see plenty more signing going on in Parliament in every debate.
As I was saying, yesterday “The Silent Child” won an Oscar. Starring six-year-old Maisie Sly and Rachel Shenton, it tells the story of a four-year-old profoundly deaf girl who struggles to communicate until she learns sign language. I am sure that all Members will join me in sending our congratulations to Maisie, Rachel and the team that produced the film. Now all I have to do is follow that.
Moving on to the petition itself, the petitioners ask for BSL to be part of the national curriculum. They point out that about 50,000 people in the UK use BSL, that many children are born deaf and that those children should be given
“a better chance at a more integrated future.”
I commend my hon. Friend on securing today’s debate. Deaf children should be able to interact with their peers as much as those children who can hear. Does she agree that a simple solution to make our education system truly inclusive would be for the Department for Education to include British Sign Language in the national curriculum for all schools and all children?
I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. I agree with that statement, and I hope to explain why.
The petitioners want BSL to be part of the national curriculum, giving better life chances to young people who are deaf. They believe that if BSL becomes part of the national curriculum, that will even up the chances of deaf young people being able to play a full part in school and attain the best results they can.
Let us look at the case. Research by the National Deaf Children’s Society into the attainment of deaf children in 2017 shows that deaf children continue to underachieve throughout their education compared with other children. Although the Department for Education claimed recently that attainment for deaf children is at an all-time high, the latest figures show that the attainment gap between deaf children and children with no identified special needs is widening, with the gap at GCSE level being particularly worrying. In 2016, 41.3% of deaf children achieved the expected benchmark of five GCSEs at A* to C grade, compared with 69.3% of children with no identified special needs. That is a difference of more than 20%, which is just not acceptable in this day and age.
All that is in the context of a reduction of 14% in the number of qualified teachers of the deaf since 2011, and a 2% reduction in just one year—2016-17. We know that we have to do more to help deaf pupils to achieve their full potential and that we need to reverse the reduction in the number of teachers of the deaf. We can do that partly by ensuring that young deaf pupils are able to have effective communication. For many, that will be through BSL. BSL has been a recognised language since 2003, but unlike other languages it is not recognised as a GCSE that can be taught in schools.
I agree with my hon. Friend that that is very important.
A pilot GCSE has been trialled and is ready to go, but the DFE is refusing to give it the go-ahead. I ask the Minister to talk to his colleagues in other Departments, and to work with them to agree the GCSE and make it available to students. The absence of a qualification in BSL with the same status as other GCSEs discourages schools from teaching sign language—a view supported by a survey run by an organisation called Signature, which I will talk about shortly.
However, making BSL a national curriculum subject is about more than just exams. It is about the whole young person and ensuring that they are able to play a full part in school activities, get on with their peers and have a full life in school and out of school.
Is my hon. Friend aware that 23,000 children aged under 15 suffer from deafness? Teaching BSL in schools will increase the inclusion of those children, will help others understand what it is to be deaf, and will therefore help social cohesion in school for all pupils.
I agree strongly with my hon. Friend’s point. It is really important that deaf children are able to take part fully in the life of the school.
In 2016-17, Signature carried out a survey of more than 2,000 young people, of whom 700 were deaf and 1,400 were hearing, on behalf of the National Deaf Children’s Society youth advisory board, which is made up young people from across the UK, such as Erin, who believe strongly that there should be more opportunities for young people—deaf or hearing—to learn BSL, which is an officially recognised language in the UK. The survey showed that 91% of young people want to learn sign language, 92% think schools should offer a BSL GCSE, and 97% think BSL should be taught in schools. Their reasons include inclusivity, as doing those things would ensure that deaf people are fully integrated into society and not disadvantaged because others cannot communicate with them effectively; the importance of communication in general; and equality—they likened learning BSL to learning French or Spanish and said that BSL was at least equally important. They thought that being able to use BSL would improve employment prospects, both directly and indirectly, but many did not know of anywhere they could learn it at no or little cost.
I have already mentioned the shortage of qualified teachers of the deaf, but there is a wider shortage. In 2017, the Department for Work and Pensions highlighted that shortages in sign language interpreters have resulted in higher costs for Government programmes such as Access to Work, and have made it harder for deaf people to enter the workplace. A GCSE could lead to more people considering interpreting for deaf people as a career.
I do not want to make this petition downbeat. Some amazing young and older people are getting out there and making the case for BSL and other measures to improve inclusivity. Since this debate was announced, a number of people—not just young people—have contacted me to tell me about the work they are doing. They include Kathy Robinson, who runs Signs for Success, which teaches very young children to sign so they can communicate from their earliest days and do not face the isolation that can come with deafness. She believes that all children—not just those who are deaf—can benefit from learning to sign. People such as Erin and other young people from the National Deaf Children’s Society are out there campaigning on this issue.
As you do these days, I googled Wayne and had a look at his Twitter feed and at the site that he and his friend Lizzie Jay have, on which they sign and sing pop songs—actually, Wayne assures me that he does not sing, because he cannot, but he signs along to pop songs. This debate and this petition are about BSL helping young people to have fun as well as learn. It is not all about serious stuff.
I was contacted by a young constituent from Blaydon— I will not give her name—who told me about her time at school, which was not an easy experience. She is out there pushing for more people to learn BSL. We need to ensure deaf young people have the best possible chance. This petition is one way of ensuring we make progress in this area.
It is about time that some of us MPs had a go at learning BSL. I am sure we could arrange classes in this place. I am sure that is achievable. I will commit to putting my name down to learn, and I know that many other Members will join me.
One of the great things about petitions is that we get a Government response—hon. Members may have seen it on the website—so we know what the Minister may be going to say, although I very much hope he will be much bolder in what he says about the proposal to include BSL in the national curriculum. I am sure other hon. Members will ask him to do the same. Basically, the Government said, “Schools can already teach it. It doesn’t need to be part of the national curriculum. We have no plans to change it.” Well yes, Minister, we know that schools can do it, but those of us who have been teachers, governors or just parents know that the school timetable is already under huge pressure. Without an additional push, in most cases it will not happen. We know from the National Deaf Children’s Society survey that young people are keen and willing to learn BSL, but the Government must help to make it part of the curriculum.
The Government said—a number of people said to me that they took exception to this comment—that BSL is a “useful tool”. It is not just a useful tool; it is an essential part of communicating with the outside world and other people. It is an essential tool for many of our young people, and we should respect that.
In conclusion, I ask the Minister to push the boat out a bit, to respond positively to the request to make BSL part of the national curriculum, and to give our deaf young people the best possible chance.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Austin. I congratulate Liz Twist on her work in facilitating this debate.
It is either coincidental or a subliminal message from another place that this debate is taking place on the same day that “The Silent Child” won an Oscar. I have not seen the film, but I understand that sign language is the means by which a whole new world is opened up for Libby, the four-year-old star of the story. Similarly, if BSL is part of the national curriculum and there is a GCSE in sign language, a whole new world will be opened up for thousands of deaf and hard-of-hearing young children and adults around the UK.
Later this month, I shall be accompanying Daniel Jillings from Lowestoft and his mother, Ann, to meet the Minister, at his very kind invitation, so they can explain why a GCSE in sign language is so important to them. Ann highlighted to me that BSL is deaf children’s first language. She said it is discriminatory that they do not have the opportunity to achieve the most widely recognised qualification in their first language, and that it is given a lower status than other languages. It is accepted that there are other accredited qualifications in BSL, but they are not widely available to children in schools and they are less likely to be recognised by employers.
Daniel achieved his BSL level 1 three years ago. It was not funded, and Ann tutored him and paid for all the assessments herself. That is not right. There is a compelling case for a GCSE in BSL. First, we must ensure equality. Many other languages are rightly taught at GCSE, including Arabic, Biblical Hebrew, Persian and Urdu. In an outward-looking, pluralistic country, it is right that they are taught, but the deaf and the hard of hearing must be placed on the same level playing field.
Secondly, the continuing absence of a GCSE in BSL is a denial of choice. A survey by the National Deaf Children’s Society’s youth advisory board found that 92% of young people who are deaf or hard of hearing think schools should offer a BSL GCSE.
Finally, the continuing non-availability of a GCSE in BSL puts up a barrier for many young people initially to further and higher education and thereafter to entry into the workplace. A barrier was taken down in Hollywood last night, as Rachel Shenton used BSL in her Oscar acceptance speech. I look forward to meeting the Minister with Daniel and Ann later this month so we can begin work on taking down a barrier in Westminster.
It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Austin. I am grateful to the Petitions Committee and my hon. Friend Liz Twist for the opportunity to debate the issue. I am very pleased to see that the proceedings are being broadcast live with full British Sign Language interpretation.
I should record that I wear two hearing aids, because my hearing was damaged during my time in the London fire brigade, although I am sure age is contributing as well now. I am also chair of the all-party parliamentary group on deafness.
The previous debate, secured in Westminster Hall by the all-party group, was on
I therefore need to ask the Minister what discussions he has had with his ministerial colleagues at the DWP about the prospects for a British Sign Language GCSE. As he knows, the DFE has already piloted a GCSE and has it ready to go, but the Government will not give it the green light. One has to ask why? Perhaps the Minister will explain in the wind-ups whether that is a DWP decision or a DFE one.
Scotland has led the way with the passing of the British Sign Language (Scotland) Act 2015. In 2016 Northern Ireland launched its consultation, and now the Welsh Government are consulting on introducing BSL into their curriculum. England seems to be lagging behind. In 2003, in UK terms, BSL was officially recognised as a language in its own right by the Department for Work and Pensions. In 2009 the UK Government ratified the UN convention on the rights of persons with disabilities, which states, among other things, that we should uphold such rights by:
“Recognizing and promoting the use of sign languages.”
Having said that, however, I think there is a small conflict between the title of the petition and what people were being asked to sign. The title states, “Make British Sign Language part of the National Curriculum”, but the wording asks why BSL is not taught in schools. The National Deaf Children’s Society has reiterated its position on a BSL GCSE: the society does not believe that it needs to be a mandatory part of the national curriculum, but that it might be easier for the DFE simply to approve the GCSE in British Sign Language that has already been piloted. That would make it an option for schools, should they deem it appropriate, but the DFE appears to be refusing to give the go-ahead due to a blanket policy on no new GCSEs.
The NDCS reinforces its view with a variety of points. On equality, if we can teach Turkish, Japanese and Russian—Peter Aldous came up with some even more obscure examples—but not British Sign Language, the implication is that BSL has a lower status and importance. Surely that could be demonstrated to be discriminatory if it came to the courts. On denial of choice, thousands of young people, whether deaf or hearing, would choose the subject, but they do not get the chance. On discouraging the teaching of BSL, having no GCSE deters teachers because it has reduced status. On reducing options for young deaf people and supporting wider Government initiatives, as we have heard, the DWP accepted in a 2017 report that we have a shortage of registered deaf interpreters, resulting in higher costs for such services and making it harder for deaf people to enter the workforce.
My questions for the Minister include the following: if the Department has a ready-to-go GCSE, why not authorise it? Why encourage schools to teach BSL without affording them the chance to benchmark their performances? Why offer GCSE equivalents in the form of national vocational qualifications but not a GCSE? I think—I suspect the NDCS does too—that the strongest of those points was the first: the question of whether the decision not to support a BSL GCSE is discriminatory. The society promotes the issue first as a matter of law and, were a case to come before the courts, the Government could be forced to act.
I do not think that the Government should be forced to act; I think they should do so voluntarily. They should not be embarrassed or shamed by Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast for dragging their feet on the matter. In my view, that is doing not only a great disservice to deaf English schoolchildren but much more—it is tantamount to insulting them. Parliament is saying to the thousands on thousands of youngsters for whom British Sign Language is a primary method of communication with each other and the world that Turkish, Japanese, Russian, Chinese, Greek and Portuguese are more important than their language.
The Minister is held in high regard throughout the House for his integrity and honesty, but I have to ask him, are we sure about this? I am sure that he will not want to give a negative response to that question but, equally, I will be very surprised if he can say anything positive today. No, I will be more than surprised—I will be delighted if he can say something more positive on the subject. The least I hope that the Minister can do, however, would be to agree to take the matter back to the Department, to discuss it with ministerial colleagues and to try again. The officers of the all-party parliamentary group and deaf organisations have a meeting with the Minister on the subject, as he knows, next Monday afternoon. We will press our case before him again then.
In conclusion, I am grateful for another opportunity to raise this issue. I am sure that the Minister knows it will not go away. The Government, I think, recognise not only the inconsistency of their position, not only the unfairness in the provision, but the positive opportunities a change of policy would offer. I look forward to the day when we hear of such a change. Today would be great, next Monday would do also, but soon, Minister, please—soon.
In 2015, Samsung produced an advert called “Hearing Hands”. In it, a whole town learns sign language, allowing people to communicate with a deaf man. It is incredibly moving because, as he enters every shop, people sign back to him, communicating with him. That helps to break down the barriers and makes him feel part of wider society. I challenge anyone present who watches that advert not to feel a little choked up and moved by it, or not to feel inspired that that is exactly the kind of society we should have. That is exactly what we want our world to be like. The slogan for the advertising campaign was, “A world without barriers is our dream, too”. Surely that should be the dream of the Government and, of course, the Opposition. I should mention that other companies are available
The Equality Act 2010, which was brought in by the last Labour Government, has done a huge amount to improve the lives of deaf people, but there is still a long way to go. We are in desperate need of more people to learn British Sign Language so that we can get to the stage where we want to be. Schools have the power to create an almost perfect example—a microcosm almost—of what our society should be: welcoming and inclusive for everyone. Schools can play a massive role in improving people’s knowledge of British Sign Language, helping to create a “Hearing Hands” society.
As a primary school teacher, I learned a very limited amount of sign language, and I will definitely be joining my hon. Friend Liz Twist to learn more, because it helps to broaden us and open us up to being able to communicate with so many more people. Although BSL is a recognised language within the UK, it is not available as a GCSE that can be taught in schools.
During the conference recess last year, I met people from the National Deaf Children’s Society. They told me that a GCSE in British Sign Language has already been piloted and is ready to go. So yes, our children could already have the option to learn British Sign Language in schools, but the Department for Education is refusing to give the GCSE the go-ahead. I completely agree with the points that have been made about when a teacher is supposed to teach British Sign Language if it is not part of the national curriculum. Personal, social and health education is already being squeezed out to nothing. Even if schools were told, “It’s something you could do,” and desperately wanted to teach it, how many have the time or capacity to actually do that?
I therefore call on the Government to rethink their approach and ensure that a GCSE qualification is made available as soon as possible. Not allowing British Sign Language to be taught as a GCSE alongside other languages, many of which have been mentioned, implies that it has a lower status and importance than those other languages. It is already hard for deaf children to feel included when their key way of communicating is not recognised in the curriculum as a GCSE. Loads of GCSEs are available in so many subjects, and we do not even ask for British Sign Language to be made compulsory.
Although there are other British Sign Language qualifications that students can take, the league table-obsessed, data-obsessed, exam-filled, narrow, fear-driven schooling and curriculum that the Government have encouraged for the past eight years means that they are less likely to be offered in schools because they are not GCSEs. Our country’s examinations system shows the world what we value. It says, “This is what we value, because this is what we examine and this is what we count.” The exclusion of British Sign Language is a damning indication of what the Government hold in high regard.
Because British Sign Language is not a GCSE, it is seen as having lower status not only by teachers but by employers. That makes it harder for deaf children to evidence their full abilities and puts them at a massive disadvantage to their peers who are not deaf. However, it is not just deaf children who want a GCSE in British Sign Language: the National Deaf Children’s Society surveyed a lot of different children in 2016 and found that nine out of 10 young people who are not deaf agree that British Sign Language should be offered in schools as a GCSE. That is because they recognise the potential wider societal benefits of everyone learning British Sign Language.
At my church, the Tower Hill Methodist church in Hessle, a volunteer called Cathy signs all our services. That has allowed more people to join our community and come to our services. That is just one example of how British Sign Language allows us to communicate with more people, make new friendships and have new experiences that enrich everyone’s lives. Beyond the Department for Education, the Government must recognise the wider societal benefits of British Sign Language, because the Department for Work and Pensions issued a report last year highlighting the shortage of language interpreters, which results in higher costs for Government programmes such as Access to Work. A British Sign Language GCSE could lead to more people considering interpreting as a career and help to address such issues.
The barriers to British Sign Language being recognised as part of the curriculum are unfair, restrict choice and stand in the way of much wider societal benefits. A GCSE in British Sign Language has been piloted and is ready to go, but it cannot be studied. Why? Because of a political choice. That shows again what the Government value and what they do not. A world without barriers should be everyone’s dream. The Government have the power to take a small step towards creating the fictional world that was played out on the television in all those adverts in 2015. I ask the Minister to listen to other hon. Members and me and give British Sign Language a GCSE.
[In British Sign Language: “Thank you, Chair. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship.”]
I started by signing, creating a barrier for everybody who does not sign, because I wanted to make the point that British Sign Language is the first language of 70,000 people in our country, so it is really important to understand how we create barriers and disable people. People are not disabled, except by the barriers we create for them.
I thank my hon. Friend Liz Twist for the way she opened the debate. I want to tell the story of why I learned sign language, explain why it is really important that BSL is in the national curriculum, and ask the Minister some questions. I also thank the interpreters for their work.
I began learning sign language because my neighbours were profoundly deaf. We would write notes to one another, but I never got to know them that well. We had a barrier between us: they could not verbalise and I could not sign. I asked myself who had created that barrier and thought, “Actually, I’ve got a responsibility to learn how to break that barrier.” That was my first reason for learning. My second was that I was a physiotherapist in a school where children signed and they were teaching me. I wanted to treat them, as their physio, so we had to work together to find a way to ensure that they understood what I was saying, and it was really important that I understood them. My third reason for learning was that I became the head of equalities at the trade union MSF, which became Unite, where my whole raison d’être was taking down barriers for disabled people, whether they had a physical impairment or a hearing impairment. There I was, saying one thing and doing another, so I took myself off to night school and learned to sign.
Learning to sign was an incredible experience, which I recommend to everyone. Not only did I have a lot of fun and laugh at myself, but it meant that I could create new friendships and had new opportunities. Throughout my life, I have found it incredibly useful. I have been at meetings where there have been non-hearing people and I have been able to interpret for them. My signing is not perfect, and I am very rusty, but at least it gave those people the opportunity to access the meeting.
There are more fundamental reasons for ensuring that we sign in our country and that we make learning sign language a universal opportunity: it would improve social and economic opportunities for people with a hearing impairment and remove barriers between young people and their potential friends. We have to remove those barriers. It is absolutely right that we should put in the investment to give those children a real opportunity.
I am glad to say that I could one day communicate with my neighbours in Norwich and we were able to build a really strong friendship as a result of my being able to sign, but what about people who do not have those opportunities? I want to talk about some of the ways that sign language can open up opportunities, but it also has universal benefits. I gave an example of a meeting, but I have also been in a supermarket with a non-hearing person who did not understand what the cashier was saying. I was able to sign and break down the barrier. Believe it or not, being able to sign has also meant that I can talk to people about politics when I am out door knocking, which is good, too.
I hold my hands up and say that, although I learned a little sign language as a teacher, I am very much looking forward to the classes that my hon. Friend Liz Twist is going to organise. As a Member of Parliament, I feel quite ashamed. If a deaf person came to one of my surgeries, how would I communicate with them? We need to set an example. The debate is about children, but I think we are all reflecting about ourselves, too. I thank my hon. Friend Rachael Maskell for making such a powerful point.
I have done some research on behalf of the all-party group on deafness, and the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority will fund classes. I have asked the UK Council on Deafness to identify tutors who would be able to come in. Getting colleagues together is always difficult given our busy diaries, but since the cost of classes is a legitimate expense—as my hon. Friend Laura Smith described very well, we should learn sign language to better serve our constituents—and the House authorities will help us do that, we should get on with it.
I thank my hon. Friend for making that point. Learning sign language really is life transforming, because people can share so much once they are able to communicate. We know from verbalised languages the difference that makes. British Sign Language is the first language of 70,000 people in Britain. We must always remember that, and ensure that it is accessible.
I have also signed at church. I have to say, it can be a bit nerve-racking to stand at the front and sign, but over time I found it brought real meaning to the words we sung and spoke, so there was a personal benefit as well as a broader one. We now see mainstreaming in the media, with the Oscars and the new film starring Maisie Sly. What a role model she is for young girls and young people on the benefits of sign language.
Why should BSL be on the national curriculum? If we had a signing nation, what a difference there would be. We should think first about baby sign, which is taught in some places. Babies learn to communicate first through signing and gesture before they can verbalise. We could get quicker communication with babies immediately, which would be a real advantage. We also want to ensure that children can grow up in mainstream education without facing barriers. There are links between British Sign Language and Makaton—although they are not the same language, some signs translate—so we could be more inclusive in enabling disabled children to be part of that wider learning community. Children are quick learners, so that is the time to learn a new language.
British Sign Language is difficult, but it is expressive and children will grasp that. It is about integration, not being different, having the same opportunities, having friends, being able to study alongside peers and building an inclusive culture and society. As children grow up, it is about social inclusion and access to jobs, life and relationships. It is about saying, “You are no different from anybody else, and we’re going to take those barriers down.”
It is important that we recognise the qualifications. Why differentiate? GCSE is the standard recognised qualification, so we need to ensure that British Sign Language fits not with the national vocational qualifications, which I have worked my way through, but with GCSEs, putting it back in the mainstream of our education system. We know that hearing loss is a massive issue faced by people later in life. If people had skills to sign, that could open up new means of communication among older people. Perhaps someone who lost their speech because they had had a stroke could sign to continue communication, so ensuring access to BSL could bring real benefits later in life.
In my city, York College and York St John University offer qualifications up to level 3, but they say that, as well as a national shortage of interpreters, there is a national shortage of tutors. We need to encourage people to see that as a worthy profession and something to go into in the future.
I have a few points to make to the Minister. My first was to ask whether he could organise some BSL sessions in Parliament, but I see that my hon. Friend Jim Fitzpatrick has that in hand. However, some dialogue on that would be of benefit so that the Minister can demonstrate how BSL can provide and open up opportunities for children in school. It would be good to join those agendas together.
Secondly, we also need to shift the agenda here. While I really welcome us having had two interpreters throughout this debate, why not have interpreters for all debates? Why do we bring in inclusion just because we are talking about BSL? Whether we are talking about the economy or foreign affairs, it is relevant to people with hearing impairments. I hope we will see a tangible shift in that agenda.
Thirdly, on qualifications, the Department must now get its skates on and bring about a level playing field to ensure that the qualifications of children who have a hearing impairment in particular—but not exclusively—are seen to be no different from those of their peers, and we must ensure that they can study and pass exams in their first language, not just in their second language.
Finally, what a different kind of society we would have if we put BSL on the national curriculum right through schooling. It is not just about qualifications; it is about cultural change. The Minister has the opportunity to bring that about today.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Austin. I pay tribute to Wayne Barrow, whose work has brought the debate to the House. This has been a consensual debate. I sometimes think this place works best when we are all pushing for the same thing, so let us hope there is some movement today as a result.
Liz Twist kicked off the debate by paying tribute to Maisie Sly. As Peter Aldous pointed out, it is almost as if someone had a hand in the debate coming about on the same day as the Oscars win. The hon. Lady spoke on various aspects, and the attainment gap in particular. I, too, speak as a teacher, and it really is important to consider that gap. No child should start education knowing that, in the end, they will have a worse set of results than another child. We need to ensure we are taking steps to combat that.
There is not yet a GCSE in BSL, but, as a result of this debate, I hope there will be. In Scotland, we are developing a Scottish Qualifications Authority qualification in BSL, so there will be certification in Scotland. It seems appropriate and sensible that the same happens for a GCSE in England, especially if the work has already been done.
Bambos Charalambous, who is no longer in his place, talked about the difficulties of inclusion and social cohesion when people are excluded from society. That is an important point. The hon. Member for Waveney talked about the range of languages available at GCSE, which probably took many of us by surprise. That hammers home starkly the point that, without a GCSE in BSL, we are selling short a large group of young people—not just those from the deaf community but other children who may want to pursue a career in that area.
Emma Hardy talked about the educational benefits to all children from learning BSL. I liked the phrase she used about the data obsession in school results. Something rich and valuable is lost in education when all we are interested in is the results at the end. She correctly pointed out that, unless BSL became a GCSE, it would remain low priority.
Rachael Maskell shamed us all with her abilities and demonstrated in a simple way how barriers are created and removed. I liked her suggestion that older people who are suffering from hearing loss could learn sign and BSL as a method of continuing communication with loved ones and in their daily lives.
Jim Fitzpatrick talked about the work done in Scotland, and I want to say a bit about that. Obviously, the issues faced by deaf people in Scotland are exactly the same. The Scottish Government have a national strategy to make Scotland the best place in the world for deaf people. The British Sign Language (Scotland) Act 2015, which was passed unanimously by the Scottish Parliament, promotes the use of British Sign Language and made provision for the preparation and publication of the British Sign Language national plan for Scotland, which we now have. A good thing about the Bill was the fact that it had cross-party support, and was passed unanimously. Let us hope we can deal with the present issue in the same way.
I am sorry I have not been able to be present for more of this important debate. My mind has been opened by the Cardiff Deaf Centre and by interpreters in my constituency such as Julie Doyle and Tony Evans, and by constituents such as Stuart Parkinson. They have made it clear to me that we need to improve BSL services across the UK. I commend what the Scottish Government have done, and the hon. Lady is probably not aware that Wales has a scheme called BSL Futures, as well as many others. However, we all need to do much more across these islands and to learn from each other how to improve services for deaf people.
In this place we often say, “Look north at what Scotland is doing,” but we can look to Wales as well—and, in this context, to many other places—to see where good work is being done. We need to take that on board.
The British Sign Language (Scotland) Act 2015 requires certain authorities to prepare and publish their own British Sign Language plans in connection with the exercise of their functions. There is potential for the Act to have a positive impact on the lives of people in Scotland whose first or preferred language is BSL. It provides an opportunity to appreciate and celebrate regional variations, including certain Scottish signs. We want that variation to flourish. The more BSL is promoted and celebrated throughout the UK, the more exposure it will receive. Because the Act is Scottish legislation, it follows that all of Scotland’s regional variations will be included and valued, but there is no reason why that could not also happen for regional variations from across the UK.
The Bill also paved the way in Scotland for the national plan for British Sign Language—the first of its kind in the UK. The plan aims to ensure that sign language users are
“fully involved in all aspects of daily and public life” north of the border. As part of the plan, major transport hubs such as train stations and airports will be expected to provide important information in BSL, as they would for any other language. Sign language interpreters will also be made more widely available across Scotland’s public services, making it easier for deaf people to hold senior positions. Sign language has been recognised as an official language in Scotland since 2011.
We hope that more British Sign Language users will be encouraged to become school teachers and share their skills with other people; but we also hope that they will infiltrate into every profession so that people have more access to every aspect of government. The Scottish Government also have a plan for primary schools, called the 1+2 language plan, which requires every child of primary school age to have experience of their native language, whatever it may be, and of two additional languages—it might be French, Mandarin, Scottish Gaelic or BSL. That has had an interesting impact, particularly on some children with learning difficulties or speech and language difficulties. It is often far easier for them to sign than to talk.
The BSL national plan also sets out 70 actions that Ministers will take by 2020 to improve the lives of people who use sign language. That is backed by £1.3 million of public funding. I shall not go through all 70 actions, but I will highlight a couple. Scottish Ministers will be asked to make progress on investigating the level of BSL among teachers and support staff in schools in Scotland and on further developing the Scottish Qualifications Authority award in BSL. Hopefully that will come into being shortly, with, as I have said, the GCSE to follow. Something else on which Ministers will be expected to make progress is enabling parents who use BSL to be fully involved in their child’s education. For parents who are part of the deaf community, situations such as parents evenings and school concerts can be difficult. Progress is also asked for on expanding the teaching of BSL to hearing pupils in schools, and improving the experience of students who use BSL when they move from school to college, university, training or the world of work. Finally, we hope to ensure that every Scottish Government-funded employment and training opportunity is fully accessible to BSL users and that they are properly supported.
I want to end by quoting Dr Terry Riley, the chair of the British Deaf Association:
“The Scottish Government’s National Plan is a brilliant example, for the rest of the United Kingdom to follow.”
We are not gloating about that, or feeling smug. It is only a starting position, and there is a lot more to do. However, I hope that the UK Government can follow suit on some of the key objectives of the plan. Our long-term plan has an ambitious aim: we want to make Scotland the best place in the world for people whose first or preferred language is BSL. That means that deaf and deaf-blind BSL users will be fully involved in daily and public life in Scotland as active, healthy citizens, and will be able to make informed choices about every aspect of their lives.
I thank my hon. Friend Liz Twist for securing and opening this important debate on BSL. I also thank Wayne Barrow; I have done a music video with him, which was a lot of fun. I look forward to the next one —maybe Wayne, Lizzie and I could do it. That would be really good. This is about bringing BSL to everyone, and putting it in front of everyone.
I thank the shadow Education team for allowing me to respond on behalf of Her Majesty’s Opposition today because, while the issue is one of equality, it falls within Education. BSL is an issue that is close to my heart. I was the first Member of Parliament to sign a question on it in the House.
Learning to sign is an eye-opening experience. I thank the interpreters, who do an amazing job—including the one they are doing here today—and the House authorities for providing a live subtitle feed. We are following in the footsteps of New Zealand and Australia in doing that. I know that it was not a piece of cake, but as with most things, the more we do them, the easier they get. We just need to do these things a lot more in this place, and then they will seem like nothing.
We have heard a lot about the Oscars and the win for “The Silent Child”, about Rachel Shenton delivering her Oscar speech in British Sign Language, and about Libby, the young girl in the film. People say, “What you see, you can be,” and the more we see people communicating by signing, the more we will take that as given and as the right thing to do.
The Labour Government recognised British Sign Language as a language in its own right in 2003. Fifteen years later it is time to take the next steps to equality for users of BSL. It is a little shocking that BSL GCSE is not offered in schools, given what we heard from Peter Aldous about how many languages are offered at GCSE. Why not BSL? It is a recognised language, after all. We should go further: it should be given legal status.
We have heard from many hon. Members here today—including my hon. Friend Emma Hardy, speaking as a teacher—about why BSL should be a GCSE, why it should be recognised and why that is important. We have heard that the GCSE model is ready to go and that all it needs is sign-off from the Department for Education. Signature has already done all the work needed; the qualification has been successfully piloted for two years in six schools. That highlights why making BSL a GCSE is so important.
Some people say to me, “Why learn BSL? Why is it an official language?” We have heard my hon. Friends the Members for York Central (Rachael Maskell) and for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick) speak about equality. Nobody in this place can be against equality. Everybody argues about equality every single time. Equality is equality; if it matters for one person, it matters for another. Why are we picking and choosing whose equality is more important? Deaf people deserve to have equality, a level playing field and British Sign Language as a recognised language.
The National Deaf Children’s Society carried out a comprehensive survey, which clearly showed that young people want to learn BSL. We have to remember that young people get old, whether we like it or not. Sometimes we do not believe we will ever get old, but young people get old and, as we have heard, thousands of older people lose their hearing. I have spoken to older people who say, “I wish I had learned some signing when I was younger, because then I wouldn’t feel so isolated.”
Now is the time. We have heard about lots of movements that are happening; now is the time for us to remove structural barriers in society. We need to ensure that more people are taught BSL. That will remove a structural barrier for deaf people and not only help them to reach their full potential, but help their mental health. A lot of deaf people suffer from mental health issues. A lot of people are trapped in a world of silence. When my hon. Friend the Member for York Central signed the beginning of her speech, there was complete silence in this room. I ask hon. Members to imagine that their whole lives were lived in that silence, everywhere they went, and that they could not communicate with anybody. That is the difference that learning sign language makes to people who are deaf.
Approximately one in six people suffers from a hearing loss. That is a lot of people in our country. I will speak briefly about why I learned BSL. The first time I spent a lot of time with deaf people was when I was at college, where there were two people who were deaf. I learned my name, and I learned to say hello and other little bits. Like my hon. Friend, I always wondered who was the person who could bring down the barrier: the person who cannot speak or the person who cannot sign? I realised it was me, who could not sign.
When I started working, there was a deaf person at work. I decided to go to evening classes to learn to sign. I went for two, or maybe three, years to learn how to sign. I am rusty now, because it was a long time ago, but I learned how to sign. I made a great friend at work. We signed, and we got ourselves in a lot of trouble, but it was a lot of fun. We talked about people, and they never knew about it, which would probably be quite a useful tool in Parliament.
BSL opens doors for people. It opened doors for me; I made new friends, and I make new friends wherever I go now. That could be in the supermarket, or on the buses or the trains, when an announcement is made and people do not know what is going on, but someone is able to sign—even if it is just a little bit, or it is just finger-spelling —what is going on. A hearing person can learn to bridge that gap with a deaf person, and that is important.
As I said, now is the time to remove the structural barriers. The Labour party has said that if we were in Government, we would have a national plan for England. We would have a BSL Act, a consultation and a debate to ensure that we take up all the good practice happening in Scotland, Wales and elsewhere. Many other countries around the world have implemented an Act. I am not asking the Minister to go as far as the Labour party today—BSL has a lovely sign for the Labour party—but when he rises to his feet, I would like him to reflect on the fact that the Department for Work and Pensions has reported and highlighted a shortage of signing interpreters, resulting in higher costs for things such as Access to Work. We need more Access to Work, not less; we need to invest in it so that deaf people can reach their full potential. We need to invest, and the way to do that is to show commitment. I hope that when the Minister gets to his feet he will have some good news for the deaf community and BSL users. I ask him to please make BSL a GCSE.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Austin. I congratulate Liz Twist on securing this debate and on a powerful opening speech, and I add my congratulations to both the filmmakers and Maisie Sly on their work and their success at the Oscars last night with their film, “The Silent Child”. While I have not yet seen the film, it raises important questions about the isolation that can arise from being born deaf in a hearing world, and highlights the difference that can be brought about by learning to communicate effectively.
The Government have recognised British Sign Language as a language in its own right since 2003. British Sign Language is a vital method of communication for many people and the first or preferred language for an estimated 70,000 deaf people in the United Kingdom. Of course, many hearing people—such as the hon. Members for Brent Central (Dawn Butler) and for York Central (Rachael Maskell)—choose to learn BSL in order to communicate more effectively with hearing-impaired people in everyday life. I very much enjoyed the speech by the hon. Member for York Central.
The Government understand, as I do, the passion that many organisations and individuals have for including BSL in the national curriculum. The reformed national curriculum, introduced in 2014, places a much greater focus on the core academic knowledge that pupils need for success in an ever more globalised world. That core body of knowledge is not expected to change significantly over time, but the national curriculum is just one element in the wide-ranging education of every child that makes up the broader school curriculum.
When we reformed the national curriculum, our expert panel made a clear distinction between the national curriculum and the school curriculum. We wanted the national curriculum to be kept within a certain size, to enable schools to develop a broader school curriculum. There is enough time and space in the school day, in each week, term and year, to expand beyond the specifications found in the national curriculum.
We are unapologetically ambitious for every child, no matter what their background, prior attainment or educational needs. The best possible education for adult life in modern Britain is one that equips children and young people with the knowledge they need to succeed. Our reforms have led to the attainment gap between children from disadvantaged backgrounds and their more advantaged peers closing by an astonishing 10% since 2011.
To do that, we ensured that the national curriculum was rigorous. We looked at curriculum design in the most successful education jurisdictions across the globe and benchmarked what our children are expected to learn at different stages. While setting stretching expectations for the knowledge and skills that each child should be taught, we have given teachers more professional freedom to choose how to teach that material and how to assess it in the classroom. We will continue to increase support for teachers to deliver this stretching curriculum effectively, including by encouraging the greater use of evidence-based teaching methods to raise standards and cut unnecessary workload.
We have a responsibility to ensure that we support teachers, reduce workload and allow our reforms to bed in and take effect. Making changes to the curriculum causes increased workload for teachers, and now that we have a high-quality curriculum, with stretching and rigorous assessments to match, we want to minimise further change. The Department’s programme of work on teacher workload aims to enable teachers to focus on teaching and their own professional development.
While we believe that BSL is an important and worth- while area of study, we do not have plans to change the national curriculum for schools to make teaching BSL mandatory for maintained schools—particularly as two thirds of secondary schools now have academy status and are not obliged to follow any part of the national curriculum, whether we revise it or not. Schools may choose to offer BSL as part of their wider school curriculum, or as part of a varied programme of extra-curricular activities. Some may also offer accredited BSL qualifications to support pupils’ achievements in the language.
For people who wish to develop their ability to communicate effectively with those with a hearing impairment in everyday situations, level 1 and 2 qualifications, which already exist, have the greatest take-up. The level 1 and 2 qualifications currently offered by the Institute of British Sign Language, Signature and ABC Awards enable people to engage in routine conversations about real life and daily experiences and to develop a wider grasp of grammar to deal with non-routine exchanges. For those who wish, there are opportunities to develop practices in BSL further into level 3 and 4, and even level 6, which is equivalent to a degree. Individuals who take those qualifications might wish to enter a career working professionally with deaf people, such as in interpreting or teaching.
I am quite upset about the tone of the Minister’s message, after a debate in which we thought we were getting a bit of movement. As a former teacher, I put on the record that I completely disagree with his statements regarding teachers feeling supported at the present time. I think it is very sad—I saw people in the Public Gallery shaking their heads—that the Government are once again prioritising exams and results in the curriculum, rather than inclusion and providing a diverse curriculum that benefits our entire society. That is a shame.
The hon. Lady interrupted my speech before I had concluded my arguments; she should hold on and be patient a little longer.
This week, we celebrate National Apprenticeship Week, which celebrates the success of apprenticeships across England. BSL is now an alternative to a level 1 and level 2 qualification in English when undertaking an apprenticeship, providing the opportunity for apprentices to achieve a qualification in their primary language. That enables those who use BSL to complete their apprenticeship without having to achieve another English qualification, such as a GCSE or functional skills qualification.
My hon. Friend Peter Aldous referred to GCSEs in Urdu and other community languages, and Jim Fitzpatrick referred to teaching Russian and Japanese. Hon. Members will be aware that we had a very real struggle with the awarding organisations—the exam boards— to ensure that those small-cohort GCSEs continued. Ultimately, we are dependent on the exam boards accredited by Ofqual to offer GCSEs being willing to offer any further GCSEs.
Before the Minister moves on from his answer to my hon. Friend Laura Smith, will he give further clarification? Will he refer later to the point that has been raised by a number of colleagues, which is that the Department for Education has already piloted a BSL GCSE that is ready to go? Why is the Department not in a position, not able or not willing to validate that for schools that want to teach the qualification in such a way rather than at NVQ level?
The hon. Gentleman pre-empts what I was about to say. He makes an important point and I will address it. Hon. Members should be aware that, of the four GCSE exam boards operating in this country, OCR, one of the major ones, recently stopped providing any language GCSEs at all, including French, Spanish and German, which are not small-cohort GCSEs. The hon. Gentleman mentions the GCSE that has been prepared by the awarding organisation Signature. We have seen that draft specification, and it has been tested in some schools. However, an established and rigorous process is in place to accredit GCSEs, and the specification has not been through that process.
A number of further steps are required to develop the specification into a GCSE, including developing broad and deep subject content by working with subject experts. It would also need to meet Ofqual’s assessment criteria and be accredited by Ofqual. Signature, were it to be the awarding organisation that offered the qualification, would need to be accredited by Ofqual as a GCSE-awarding organisation and be subject to its regulatory oversight. It is not a simple process of saying the qualification is already done and dusted and ready to run. A huge number of steps have to be gone through.
I presided over the reforms to GCSEs since 2010. The new GCSEs in English and maths were ready for first teaching in September 2015, and the next set were ready for first teaching in 2016, with exams in June 2018. These GCSE reform and accreditation processes take a long time. The accreditation is not a simple thing to acquire from Ofqual, which often sends the specifications back for further drafting before it is prepared to accredit them.
I am grateful to the Minister for that further clarification. Given the hoops that have to be jumped through to actually get to a position in which a GCSE will be available, is the Department in a position to say that it supports the additional efforts to get to that point, or is it not the Department’s role to encourage that? Where do we go from here to actually get to a position whereby there will be a BSL GCSE validated by the Department that can be taught and examined in schools?
We have been clear that we want schools to have a period of stability, so we have said that there are to be no new GCSEs or A-levels for a period of time. That is not to say that in the longer term we will not consider new subjects for GCSEs. However, it is important, after the hugely extensive reforms to GCSEs and A-levels, that schools have a period of stability. I have a responsibility to schools to enable them to have that period of stability, which they have asked us for.
Does the Minister agree that what we examine shows what we value as a society? What the Minister values is clear to anybody who wishes to read it in the changes he introduced to GCSEs. What message does it send out to people if we will not even consider having BSL as a GCSE? What does that say about what we value as a society?
I would argue that not everything that is taught in schools needs to be a GCSE. We allow plenty of valuable qualifications to be taught in schools under the section 96 list that have valuable subject content but are not sufficiently broad to qualify as a GCSE. However, we none the less encourage their teaching in our schools. As I have said, we value BSL as a subject, and we encourage schools that wish to do so to teach it. Schools are permitted to teach a number of qualifications at levels 1, 2, 3 and 4.
I am really struggling. For the Minister and myself, English is our first language, and we have the right to sit a qualification at GCSE level in our first language. BSL could be the first language of the hearing impaired, yet we deny those people that opportunity, so a real inequality has therefore been built into the system. This is not about adding another subject to the curriculum but attaining equality for people who are hearing impaired.
As I said, we value BSL. However, a huge number of steps would have to be gone through for the BSL qualification to be accredited as a GCSE. Having been through it, I can say that it is not a simple process to get qualifications accredited. There are existing level 2 qualifications; GCSEs are level 2. There are existing BSL qualifications of high quality available that can be taught in schools. BSL is not a GCSE subject, but as I said, many subjects taught in schools are not GCSE subjects and none the less are valued by schools and by those who take the qualifications.
We recognise that some who wish to take a qualification in BSL will do so to communicate with a family member or friend. Indeed, many of those in most need are hearing parents of deaf children. We understand that early access to language is essential to help children to learn and thrive and it is vital that families have the support that they need to communicate with their children. The Department has provided funding for the development of a support guide to help parents of deaf children. Families or carers may also be eligible for support to learn sign language. The Department has provided funding for the I-Sign project to develop a family sign language programme, which is available online.
We believe that all young people should be helped to achieve their potential, regardless of their background or circumstances. More than 21,000 children with a hearing impairment are supported at school. We are proud that 93% of hearing impaired children are supported to attend a mainstream school. Pupils who use sign language are generally provided with support at school through specialist teaching assistants and specialist teachers of the deaf. However, we do not prescribe how schools should support pupils with a hearing impairment.
We have made it clear in the special educational needs and disability code of practice that all schools must use their best endeavours to make suitable provision available for all children of school age with special educational needs or disabilities. The reasonable adjustments duty for schools and local authorities includes a duty to provide supporting aids and services for disabled pupils. That could include things such as radio aids or communication support workers. In addition, the local authority can support parents and children in developing the knowledge that they need to communicate effectively.
When the time comes for pupils to take examinations, schools and colleges are responsible for ensuring that reasonable adjustments are made for pupils to make exams more accessible. Common arrangements include extra time and the use of scribes and readers and of word processors. More deaf children than ever are leaving school with good GCSEs, and we want them to continue to aspire to reach their full potential. Statistics show that attainment in English and maths for that group has been improving in recent years. The proportion of children with a hearing impairment achieving a standard pass—at grade 4 or above—in English and maths GCSE has increased by 6 percentage points compared with passes at C or above in 2011. We are very proud of that improvement.
I am not interrupting; I just want to make a point to the Minister. It is wonderful that deaf people and deaf children are exceeding what has been achieved previously and doing well in terms of their attainment, but these are not equal opportunities. Surely it is the Government’s responsibility to deliver equal opportunities for all children and all people in our society. I just do not feel that the Government are taking responsibility for this issue. We have heard that it is a matter for teachers and schools and can be a matter for local government. What about the Government?
I have explained the position as regards a GCSE. As I said, two thirds of schools have academy status, which means that they are not obliged to follow the national curriculum. That trend is increasing—the number of schools acquiring academy status increases every month—and, as I said, such schools are not obliged to follow the national curriculum.
I have also set out the very real practical issues. Any new GCSE has to go through an accreditation process. It has to be provided by an awarding organisation that is itself accredited as a GCSE provider. As I pointed out, we have had a real struggle with the awarding organisations on providing language GCSEs, particularly in the community languages. We had a huge battle with them and ended up having to move a whole raft of community language GCSEs from OCR to the other awarding organisations. Ultimately, we can only provide GCSEs that the exam boards, which are independent, wish to provide. As I said, a draft specification has been provided by Signature, but it would have to go through the process of having the GCSE accredited by Ofqual and would itself have to be accredited by Ofqual as a GCSE provider. Those are the issues confronting any Minister in the Department for Education as regards new GCSEs, because the system in the legislation passed in the House to ensure that we offer GCSEs that are on a par with one another and hold their standard over time has led to our deciding to have a very powerful regulator, which is absolutely right to ensure that we maintain standards. That process has to be gone through by anyone who wishes to introduce a new GCSE.
In addition, we want schools to have a period of stability. This is not the only request for a new GCSE; there are requests for others. Schools have asked for a period of stability. There will be stability for a short period, and after that we can consider whether new GCSEs or A-levels can be introduced.
I accept that not all schools have to teach the national curriculum, but what exists is not actually a national curriculum; it is an examination curriculum. The school curriculum is built around the examinations that children take. I am sorry, but I disagree with the point that there is a wider school curriculum. There is not. Schools long for there to be a wider school curriculum, but the reforms made by this Government have squeezed things out and narrowed it down very tightly to being based solely on examinations. If we do not give British Sign Language an examination, it just will not be counted and will not be taught.
There are examinations in BSL, produced by Signature and ABC, that are for level 1 or 2 qualifications. Exams exist in BSL. The qualifications are on the section 96 list and can be taught in schools, so they do exist.
I do not accept the caricature of our school system described by Emma Hardy. The school curriculum is very wide. The most successful schools in the state sector have a very wide curriculum and they offer plenty of sport, music and art as part of that. Art and music are compulsory to the end of key stage 3, and the schools that are most successful academically, in the exams that the hon. Lady dismisses, are the schools that also have a very broad and balanced curriculum beyond GCSE.
We made it very clear in our reforms to the national curriculum that there was to be a distinction between the national curriculum, which focuses on the core academic subjects, and the school curriculum, which goes beyond those subjects and includes sport and a whole raft of artistic and other subjects, which are hugely important. I am referring to subjects such as sex and relationships education, PSHE—personal, social, health and economic education—citizenship and so on, which are hugely important in developing a rounded person.
I am struggling to understand why the Minister cannot ask an awarding body to go away and do the work to ensure that a GCSE in British Sign Language can come on stream and then be integrated in the school system, by which time the schools will clearly have had their period of stability and then will be able to teach BSL as part of their core curriculum.
I am always very happy to have meetings and discussions on these issues. I continue to have discussions with people who want to introduce a whole raft of new subject content into our schools, and I am very happy to be having a meeting next week with my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney to discuss this very issue, so we always keep these issues under review. Today I have set out the real challenges facing the school system in this country and I have put on the record in an open and transparent way where we are on the issue of new GCSEs coming into our system. That is what I have sought to do today, and on that basis I conclude my remarks.
I thank all hon. Members who made contributions to the debate. Most of it was fairly upbeat. It is a shame about the ending, but I will come on to that.
I thank Peter Aldous for his support for the cause. I also thank my hon. Friend Jim Fitzpatrick, who chairs the all-party parliamentary group on deafness; my hon. Friend Emma Hardy; and my hon. Friend Rachael Maskell, who so powerfully reminded us that it is we who are erecting barriers, not people who have hearing difficulties or deafness, which is an important point to remember. I thank Carol Monaghan for her contribution and my hon. Friend Dawn Butler. Some really interesting and exciting points were made, all of them supporting the need for us to be more inclusive and to reach out and include young people with deafness, about whom we are talking today.
Then we come to the Minister’s comments. I have to say that I was really disappointed. I asked the Minister to go further than he had in his written response. I am disappointed that we have not been able to go further today. I heard all the reasons he gave, but we need a can-do approach. We have a problem and we need to find a way around it, so that all our young people can take part not only in school activities, but in life in the wider community, through the development of a BSL GCSE and the inclusion of BSL as a curriculum subject. I remain convinced, having been a governor in a number of schools, that it is really difficult to find time to teach BSL, although it is allowed. I look forward to his further discussions with the APPG.
I hope that there will be a change in the future to include BSL in the national curriculum and to recognise a GCSE qualification. I do not think that Wayne and his mates, Erin and other young people are going away. I think we will hear much more about this issue in the next few days. I am reminded that next week is Sign Language Week. I think there will be a lot going around among the Twitterati and the public about this, so watch out for a lot more questions from the public, as well as from hon. Members, on this issue.
To finish, I remind everyone that although we have spent a lot of time talking about the national curriculum and GCSEs, this is all about allowing deaf young people to be included in activities and school life, and to just have some fun, like Wayne and his mates do. I thank hon. Members and I am sure we will come back to this issue.
Before Members leave, I want to formally thank the interpreters who have been translating this debate into BSL, the people who have been organising the live simultaneous interpretation on television, and the Officers of the House who have made all of this possible.
Question put and agreed to.
That this House
has considered e-petition 200000 relating to British Sign Language being part of the national curriculum.