[Sir Roger Gale in the Chair] — Tax (Developing Countries)

– in Westminster Hall at 12:00 am on 17 January 2013.

Alert me about debates like this

[Relevant documents: Tax in Developing Countries: Increasing Resources for Development, Fourth Report of the International Development Committee, HC 130, and the Government Response, HC 708.]

Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting be now adjourned.—(Nicky Morgan.)

Photo of Malcolm Bruce Malcolm Bruce Chair, International Development Committee, Chair, International Development Committee 1:30, 17 January 2013

The Select Committee on International Development is extremely grateful for the opportunity to debate two of our reports. The first is on tax in developing countries, and the second is on Afghanistan. We think both issues are important, although they are obviously completely different in their scope.

The Committee has long recognised that when British taxpayers put substantial resources into supporting developing countries, it is important that those countries raise their own tax base so that we are effectively working in partnership to develop their economies and services. Of course we recognise that the tax base in poor countries is inevitably low, and that the last thing that many people on very low incomes need is to be harried for tax. Nevertheless, almost every country has a variety of ways in which money can legitimately and properly be raised from different aspects of its economy. I will first mention the internal issues affecting developing countries and the role that the UK Government can play in addressing them. Members of our Committee often hear as a mark of frustration that in many developing countries, willingness to pay tax in the sector of the population who have the capacity to do so is rather low. It is difficult to set a good example if Presidents, Prime Ministers, MPs and leading business people make little or, in some cases, absolutely no contribution to their own Exchequer. Before we consider the international dimension, it is worth putting on record that the Committee says, right at the start, that we should ensure that people who can pay tax in their home countries do so. Performance is variable; I am not suggesting that all countries are the same or equally bad.

Of course, many non-governmental organisations and campaigners focus on tax paid by national and international corporations. I will certainly come to that, and it is extremely important, but equality of treatment seems relevant. If we are to say, as we should and must, that national and international corporations operating in developing countries should pay their full share of tax, it is helpful if, for example, the local directors of those companies also pay their share of tax, and that the approach is seen to be equitable.

Having said that, I want to consider the issues affecting the tax paid by corporations operating internationally, and to make it clear to the House that although we examined tax in developing countries worldwide, we took Zambia as our case study because we felt that it had a growing and diverse tax base, with which we could perhaps test what could be achieved. We had a good visit to Zambia, which I will discuss a little later.

We made numerous recommendations in our report. The Government did not readily accept all of them, but they did accept some, and there are some that we hope they will work on. Indeed, developments in our own domestic circumstances in recent weeks have sharpened the debate and perhaps given the British Government pause to think that some of our recommendations are just as relevant to the UK as to poorer developing countries.

We recommended that the Government introduce legislation, similar to the American Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, that would require tax authorities automatically to exchange information regarding UK citizens and corporations. The Government did not accept that, saying that there were difficulties—although the US seems to have managed it—but I think that more recently they have softened their line a little.

A number of our recommendations were designed to improve information exchange and transparency. The problem for all tax authorities is that if they do not have basic information about what individuals or companies are earning, it is pretty difficult to tax them fairly or at all. The classic practice for international companies is to move their earnings around to where they can secure the lowest taxation impact, or none. A lot of that might be legitimate, in that international corporations have international transactions that are not really attributable anywhere, although they should be taxed somewhere.

However, when serious, very identifiable economic activity is plainly taking place in an economic jurisdiction but little or no tax is being paid, something is obviously not right. When we engaged with the Zambian authorities, particularly about the taxation of their minerals and especially their copper industry, we got into the nitty-gritty of that. The copper industry in Zambia has operated for about 70 years. It dates back to colonial times and has been under different ownership; at one point it was owned by the state Government of Zambia, who frankly did not make a very good fist of it and ended up losing money on the copper mines. The timing was not good, and the operational management was probably not good either, so the mines were subsequently returned to private ownership.

That has been a good thing for Zambia. Copper prices have risen, the tax base has risen and taxes are being paid, which is making a significant contribution, but there is a degree of frustration and unhappiness. The Zambian authorities feel that the full amount of tax that could or should be paid on the basis of the economic activity within Zambia is not being paid, mostly due to the practice of transfer pricing. Exploring the debate reinforced our view that transparency of information is key to getting the tax base right.

If I give an example of the extreme view, it is easy to understand the issue. If a company had a very large productive mine—an obviously profitable commodity—in a developing country but paid a substantial amount of tax, albeit on a low rate on earnings, in the Cayman Islands, most people would understand that the Cayman Islands is not rich in the minerals on which the company was being taxed, and that that was therefore an inappropriate redistribution of the accounts. It becomes more complicated, of course, when companies have many operating bases and lots of different activities, but the principle is nevertheless the same. We are trying to ensure that companies pay a fair tax on the activities that they conduct in any given geographical area to the Government of that country. That is corporation or related tax.

Zambia has gone through numerous different ways of doing things. It had an excess profits tax and a variable corporation tax. We discovered that the problem with all those approaches was that the licences under which different mines operated had been issued at different times by different Governments on different terms, all allowing companies to claim tax breaks, loss offsetting and so on, which enabled them to pay little or no tax. The resolution to that situation, which has not been entirely popular with the industry but which we understand and broadly support, has been to move to a system of royalties, set at 6% of turnover based on the company’s declared tonnages, knowledge of the ore quality and the prices set per day on the London Metal Exchange. The net result of that for those companies that complain is that it is something that is easy for the Zambian authorities to administer. It might be rough justice, but companies must come up with a credible alternative, which they have not done, if they argue that there is a better way of doing it. It looks as though that is likely to lead to a steadily rising revenue base for Zambia. I conclude from that that, on the whole, Zambia emerges as a pretty good case study.

On the copper belt and copper production, we had an extremely good exchange with Ministers and civil servants in Lusaka about the rest of the tax base. There is a ready recognition that as Zambia’s economy grows, it should not be totally reliant on copper for its public finances; it wants instead to expand the tax base. It was looking for advice and help on how to do that. In other words, what can they tax efficiently, fairly and not counter-productively and how far down the earnings scale is it sensible to go? Clearly, it is neither administratively sensible nor economically wise to tax people at the very bottom. That made us realise that there was scope for the UK Government to do a lot more in partnership with developing countries to enable them to improve their revenue-collecting capacity. I can quote examples—good and bad—where that is happening. I have already mentioned Zambia. We have evidence that similar success has been achieved in Tanzania where the dependence on UK and other forms of development assistance is falling as a proportion of its overall budget because its tax base is rising. It is absolutely true of Rwanda, which is spectacularly successful in this area.

Interestingly, the head of the revenue authority in Burundi, who was previously in Rwanda and who is a British national with a strong Irish connection, has demonstrated a singular capacity to raise the revenue base in Burundi, which is a very poor country. For the Minister’s benefit, let me say in passing that it remains stubbornly the view of the Committee that Burundi should continue to receive UK aid. Whether or not the decision to close down the programme was misjudged, the case for continuing it is strong, and we will continue to make it.

The Committee took evidence this morning on Pakistan, where the position is depressingly unsuccessful. I should probably first mention Afghanistan, which we will be debating later. Thanks largely, but not exclusively, to the support of the UK Government, the tax base in

Afghanistan has risen from almost nothing—3%—to 11% in the last few years, and the potential to raise it further is clearly evident. I can promise my hon. Friend Pauline Latham, who was a bit disgruntled because she did not hear a lot of the presentation we were given, that the content was good in that it showed how much the revenue base had risen, how much more potential there was and how valuable the UK Government support was. All of that was achieved by officials working inside the Ministry to help get a handle on the figures.

The revenue collection in Pakistan is under 10%, which is awful for a well established country. Although it is classified as a lower-middle income country, it is, none the less, a middle income country. Bluntly, the figures are such because the leaders of Pakistan do not believe that taxes are a club they wish to join. Some 80% of MPs and the President pay nothing, so the will to collect tax is almost non-existent. Obviously, the Committee must deliberate further, and we will take more evidence from the Secretary of State next week and then produce a report. We are likely to say that Pakistan cannot go on expecting to receive unconditionally the bounty of the international community while not addressing the issue. That is simply not morally acceptable, economically sensible or fair. I can predict that we will come out with something fairly hard on that issue.

My point is that collection can be improved, and where that is done, it makes a difference. Where it is not being done, it needs to be done. Much more transparency is needed and information should be published on a country-by-country basis. I urge the Prime Minister, through my hon. Friend the Minister, whom I am delighted to see in her position and whose response I look forward to hearing, to look into the matter. What has happened in the UK in the past few months has possibly sharpened the focus of the Government. We will be chairing the G8 and, in that context, we are told that taxation will be a central issue. However, I suggest to the Government that while it is understandable that such an issue is driven by a degree of public anger against companies such as Amazon and Starbucks—Starbucks has been shamed into changing its stance on this—it should be recognised that if it is a problem for us, it is a much bigger problem for very poor countries, which might have a very limited amount of economic activity that is controlled and owned by overseas companies. I urge the Government to ensure that in the process of trying to raise the commitment to get an international agreement on tax, the interests of poor and developing countries are given special attention.

It has been recognised that, at a time of recession when Governments are clearly struggling with deficits, the knowledge that tax, which could or should accrue to a country’s Exchequer, is not doing so perhaps causes more anger than it would in normal times. Of course it is right that companies that are operating within our jurisdiction should pay their fair share of taxes. Perhaps it is because we are hurting that developing countries will benefit from a policy initiative that might not otherwise have taken off. We should try to get an international agreement that all countries will ensure a standard of accounting that makes all the relevant information clearly available in the public domain so that revenue authorities can fairly assess where tax should accrue and where it is liable.

In Zambia, we were told that quite a lot of information is available, but it is not quite as easily available to the ordinary Zambian. It is very easily available to any sophisticated westerner with a credit card, but a person with no access to computers or to credit and who does not understand the system has a very small chance of finding such information even though it is available to them. We need to improve that and make information more accessible.

We hope the Government will take on board our recommendations and think about them a little more. We agree, I think, on the capacity to do more. We have suggested that the Government consider a more proactive partnership with our own Revenue and Customs. Where appropriate, of course it should be collecting our taxes, but, where we can, we should second people or support the Revenue to work alongside revenue authorities in developing countries to build up their capacity for tax. It is in the interests of donors, the people in the country, and the international community to ensure that that happens. We hope and understand that the Government are actively considering that matter, but it would be good to hear from the Minister what progress is being made.

The issue of tax has clearly caught the imagination of some of the NGOs, who are making 2013 a big year for tax justice. I am not here to be the mouthpiece of Christian Aid or the NGO consortium, but I am happy to record their views. As it happens, a number of our constituents were visited by the Christian Aid bus over the summer. It certainly rolled up in my constituency—I wonder why! I had a good meeting with both local activists and senior NGO members, who very much welcomed our report. Perhaps not surprisingly, they focused very sharply on the corporate issues that I have been discussing. However, I said that they should not just target the international economic players; it was really important that they also joined the campaign to ensure that rich elites in developing countries accept their responsibilities, because the interconnection between the two is inescapable.

Christian Aid has said that it wants to tackle the issue, that it wants the Government to tackle the issue and that it wants to shine a light on it. It highlights information that may or may not be true, but the figures that are given are huge. It says that as much as £13 trillion of potential taxes are locked up and “hidden in tax havens”. Whether that is true or not—£13 trillion is an awful lot of money, so even if the true figure is half or just a fraction of that, it is significant.

Again, I do not put too much credence on the figures per se, but Christian Aid also talks about a figure of $160 billion annually that developing countries are losing in tax, which is far, far more than the entire flow of overseas development assistance to those countries. I am not suggesting that to solve that problem we can cut the development budget, but clearly there is not much point in handing out development aid if we are not getting access to the resources that should be credited to the countries concerned, which are entitled to them.

To conclude on this report on tax, I will talk about two simple things—certainly one of them is simple and the other is not as difficult as it perhaps has appeared before—that the Government could and should do. Actually, the Government are doing the first thing, and I just want to hear that they are doing more of it. That is making raising the tax base one of the key components of our bilateral programmes, particularly where we are engaged in-country, and putting real resource alongside the Governments that we are working with, both to get those Governments to show the political will to raise taxes and to give them the capacity—through revenue collection—to secure the revenue. The second thing is to be prepared to take a lead, I guess, and for the UK to be more transparent and to demonstrate, by example, that we can be more open. Certainly, we must also encourage international agreement to get as much transparency as possible.

I mentioned the subject of minerals earlier when I discussed Zambia. There was one particular issue that was raised with us that the Government did not reply to directly in responding to our report, which is membership of the extractive industries transparency initiative. The EITI was actually a UK Government idea; effectively, it was Tony Blair’s idea. It is a good idea, and the initiative has been signed up to by many countries, including developing countries, but it has not been signed up to by the UK. We understand that the argument against our signing is that it was not considered that the UK was mineral-rich. Well, I represent a constituency in the north-east of Scotland and I think that we are quite mineral-rich still, actually. Mineral extraction may not be a huge proportion of our GDP, but in absolute terms minerals are not an insignificant resource for us. However, that is almost beside the point, Mr Gale—Sir Roger. I beg your pardon. It happens to me all the time, and it happens to you too.

I ask the Government to seriously consider signing up to the initiative, because it would demonstrate that we are serious about the issue too. If the argument against our signing is that we do not have a huge mineral base, then it should not be very difficult for us to comply. As I say, however, the Government kind of avoided answering that particular question on the EITI. I do not know whether my hon. Friend the Minister is in a capacity to commit the Government to do something; if she is not, I hope that she will report our Committee’s view that signing up would be a good step for the Government to take.

With that, Sir Roger, I must say that I am grateful to the House for letting us have this opportunity to debate the issue. I genuinely commend the report. I think that it is about a very important part of what our development relationship with countries should be. We have made good progress, but there is a lot more that we can do.

Photo of Roger Gale Roger Gale Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (Full Member)

Thank you very much, Sir Malcolm. I think it is one-all—I owe you an apology as well.

I also apologise to Members for the fact that I had not really grasped the implications of there being two debates this afternoon with no time separation between them. I now propose to deal with that issue, and to explain what I think we will try to achieve.

There is no time limit on this first debate, but obviously there is a limit on the totality of time available in Westminster Hall today; the sitting must end at 4.30 pm. So it really is up to hon. Members to decide how they wish to split that time. I propose to call Mr Burden, Mrs Latham, Mr Stunell and Mr Lefroy, and then the Opposition Front Bencher and the Minister. I will then allow, as I think is traditional, a couple of minutes at the end if the Chair of the Committee wishes to wrap up the first part of the debate. However, we will treat this as two separate debates.

I suggest at this stage that although we do not know how we will run for time, the Opposition Front Bencher and the Minister might consider taking about 10 minutes each, if that is adequate.

I hope that is clear.

Photo of Richard Burden Richard Burden Chair, International Development Sub-Committee on the Work of the Independent Commission for Aid Impact, Chair, International Development Sub-Committee on the Work of the Independent Commission for Aid Impact 1:54, 17 January 2013

Thank you for calling me to speak, Sir Roger. As always, it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, and I will address another knight to say that it is a pleasure to follow Sir Malcolm Bruce, who is the Chair of our Committee.

The report that we are debating now is, as all our reports have been so far, the product of a cross-party consensus. There is a huge amount of cross-party agreement on the Select Committee about the importance of, and the issues raised by, the subject of this report—tax in developing countries.

A few months ago, Birmingham was one of the cities and towns that were visited by the Christian Aid bus for tax justice, and I was pleased to join a number of local faith leaders, activists, local NGOs and others in welcoming it. It was good to see people from the constituency there as well. They were concerned that, as the Chair of our Committee has already mentioned, Christian Aid estimates that there could be up to $160 billion annually in taxes that developing countries arguably should be receiving but are not. Whether or not that figure is precisely right, the money involved is big. In short it can mean the difference between children going to school or not, hospitals and clinics being built or not, and jobs and opportunities being created or not.

There are all sorts of reasons for those missing tax billions, and all sorts of issues raised by them. However, if we are going to tackle this issue, transparency is absolutely the key to doing so; the Committee was also united in that respect. If there are companies that are playing off financial rules and prices in one country against those in another, there is a problem if we do not know about that situation and we will not be able to tackle the issue. If we then “stir in” the use of tax havens, in which NGOs have estimated that up to $13 trillion is stored, we are talking about big, big money.

In relation to tax havens, some people say, and it has been put to our Committee, that they can be an efficient use of money, to ensure that money that is raised can then be used and moved around productively to create jobs and opportunities, and in some cases to boost services, in developing countries. That is okay, but when tax havens are a means of avoiding obligations it is a very different thing indeed.

In just a little while, I will say something about global rules and especially about the need for transparency. Before I do so, however, I will say a word or two about the context, which the Chair of our Committee has already referred to. It is really important that the development that takes place is sustainable.

I am fully behind the UK’s commitment—it is a cross-party commitment—to stick to the 0.7% target on aid; as I say, I am fully behind it. However, in the long term the future of development will become, and should become, less and less about aid, and more and more about ensuring that developing countries have the means and the ability to sustain economies of their own. That must mean that there are tax systems and tax laws that work. In addition, it certainly means that, as the Chair of our Committee said, the leadership of those countries themselves accept an obligation to pay tax—the evidence from Pakistan in that regard is very concerning—and it also means that they need assistance. The UK has been active, and I welcome the Government’s contribution to this, in giving assistance to develop tax systems and so on, providing the kind of capacity-building and technical assistance that can be so very important.

However, we cannot avoid the fact that it is important that those countries still receive the tax that should be morally due to them. That should be an important matter not only for people who are interested in development, such as everyone in Westminster Hall today, but also for some of the media commentators and critics of the 0.7% target. That is because, when it comes down to it, if people are aid-sceptics then it has to be even more important for them that they should be tax justice enthusiasts if the problems of this world are going to be addressed. The issue is important to developing countries, but as the Chair of our Committee said, it is also important for us domestically. Tax dodging by major companies not only depletes developing countries’ resources but has an impact here.

Our report, which is some months old now, was welcomed by the NGO community—by those interested in development. I do not think that I am letting any secret out of the bag, though, by saying that on hearing that the International Development Committee had produced a report, many people across the country probably did not rush to open it up and read it—it passed a lot of them by. The debate on tax justice and morality, however, has been transformed, as the Chair of our Committee mentioned, by the recent high-profile cases of Starbucks, Amazon and others. All credit to the Public Accounts Committee and its Chair, my right hon. Friend Margaret Hodge, for bringing the issue so firmly into the public focus and highlighting that this is the tip of a very large iceberg of creative accounting in the multinational corporate world, which is less than creative as far as the public good is concerned, in the UK and in the developing world.

None of us likes to pay tax, and approaches to taxation and tax policy divide parties, but there is now greater recognition than I ever remember that taxation holds society together, globally as well as in the UK, regardless of any differences between parties on tax-raising mechanisms—on what works and what does not. The consensus that a tax system that works has to be in place, and that the corporate great and good have an obligation under such a system that is equal to that of ordinary citizens, is greater than I can remember it being for a long time.

Against that background, I am a little disappointed that the Government did not go a bit further in accepting some of our recommendations. Given that the climate surrounding the matter has changed a lot since the report was published, I hope that over the coming months the Government will review some of their responses to the report, particularly when the Prime Minister himself has said that taxation should be a major focus of the forthcoming G8.

I have a few questions for the Minister, and I hope that she will be able to help us with them today. The first is about automatic information exchange. Our Committee recommended that it would be useful for the UK to adopt something like the system in the United States, where there is the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act. The Government have said no to that so far, stating that it would not work. That is a point of view, but I have difficulty marrying it with the Government’s now saying that something like that would be a good idea in relation to Crown dependencies and overseas territories. If that sort of thing can be done with them—and I would welcome that—why is it so difficult to do it more widely?

Regarding what works, the Committee recommended country-by-country reporting. This is not rocket science. It is multinational companies reporting, on a country-by-country basis, the names of all the companies belonging to them in each country, along with their financial performance and tax liability, the costs and net book value of their fixed assets and the details of their gross and net assets in each country. That is a really important starting point for getting transparency that works. The Government say that they do not consider that possible either, but I do not follow their logic. They seem to be saying that, at European Union level, they support the mandatory reporting of most of those kinds of things in relation to the extractive industries and forestry, and I agree with that, but why, therefore, can they not go that little bit further and do what our Committee recommended? I just do not understand the Government’s logic here. Can the Minister explain it? Unless we have that kind of information flowing through on a country-by-country basis, how in practical terms will we ever know what is going on with transfer pricing?

My third question is about something that the Chair of the Committee mentioned. The extractive industries transparency initiative is a good thing, as is the fact that the Government welcome the strategy review that is taking place, but would we not have a bit more credibility if we said that we were prepared to join the initiative ourselves, particularly as it was our idea in the first place?

My fourth question is about co-ordination in Government. Taxation is, rightly, normally the province of the Treasury, but we know from the fact that this debate is happening—that we have produced our report and the Government’s response has come in—that it is also something in which the Department for International Development has a big role. However, it is not always clear to me, and to many others, how far different Departments are in step with each other and how much co-ordination and discussion goes on. Will the Minister comment on the extent and, without breaching any confidences, the nature of any discussions that have taken place between DFID and the Treasury about the draft Finance Bill? As far as DFID policy is concerned, has there been any response to the requests—from a lot of places now, in the UK and elsewhere—for provisions to be included in our domestic tax legislation that would assist developing countries to collect taxes?

My fifth question, which is also on Government co-ordination, is: how far, across Government, is there engagement with the wider community? Draft Finance

Bills and tax systems and so on can seem dry, but the public interest is now greater than ever. Is the Minister prepared to consider or, even better, to commit to some kind of cross-Whitehall consultation with civil society and outside tax experts on proposals for the G8 in relation to tax?

My final question is about clarity. The Committee, along with a number of people outside, have been saying that there needs to be a Minister with responsibility for tax and development in a clearer way than has existed so far. The Government have been fairly silent on whether our recommendations on that matter are a good idea or not such a good idea, so I ask the Minister, would that be a good idea? If the answer is no, what is the alternative, if we are to provide greater clarity across Government on tax and development?

I place on record my thanks to my colleagues and everyone else involved with the Committee for their work. The report has been warmly received outside this place. We were a bit ahead of the game in highlighting the issue’s importance. Some of what we said in the report has been borne out by events since publication, so I hope the Government will go a little further by responding more positively to some of the specific recommendations than they did in their original response.

Photo of Pauline Latham Pauline Latham Conservative, Mid Derbyshire 2:10, 17 January 2013

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship again, Sir Roger.

I am pleased to speak in this debate on the report on tax in developing countries published by the Select Committee on International Development. It is difficult for us to lecture other countries when we do not have our own house in order. I am pleased that the Chancellor is considering how he might tax companies that are not paying their fair share of tax here because, like developing countries, we need tax to address our deficit if we are to continue—and we will continue—to fund international development and many other things. I will be pleased when the Chancellor of the Exchequer returns to tell the House of Commons exactly how he will do that, because it is important. I completely support my two colleagues who spoke before me, my right hon. Friend Sir Malcolm Bruce and Richard Burden.

I will focus on the part of the report on the role of the extractive industries transparency initiative, which was mentioned by both my colleagues. I am particularly interested in that topic, on which I have tabled written parliamentary questions, and next month I will be visiting a coal mine in South Africa with the Industry and Parliament Trust. I was going to go to a diamond mine, but I have been downgraded, although there will be no problem with free gifts at the end of the visit.

I currently chair the extractive industries transparency initiative group, which is currently an informal body, but I am hoping for it to become an all-party group very shortly as I have just found a final member. At a meeting of the group before Christmas, our guest speaker was the chair of the EITI, the former Secretary of State for International Development, the right hon. Clare Short, who provided a valuable insight into the EITI’s worthwhile work.

The establishment of the EITI was a massive step forward, and I pay tribute to the previous Labour Government for taking the lead in founding the initiative. The underlying principle of the EITI is that Governments disclose the amounts they receive from corporations in the extractive sectors, including payments of taxes, signature bonuses and royalties, and corporations operating in participating countries make a corresponding disclosure of the payments they make to the respective Governments. An EITI report for the relevant country is then published, reconciling the amounts paid by corporations with the amounts received by the Government. Any discrepancy between the two amounts may indicate that revenues are falling into the hands of corrupt officials, which is not unusual in many of the countries we talk about in the international development sector. The methods used are an extremely effective way of identifying possible corruption, and ensuring that the two figures correspond is one way in which people in participating countries are able to call their Governments to account.

There are two stages of EITI accreditation: EITI candidate status and EITI-compliant status. There are 14 countries with compliant status, although one of those, Yemen, is currently suspended, and 21 countries with candidate status.

The EITI has a robust yet flexible methodology—the EITI standard—that ensures a global standard is maintained throughout the implementing countries. The EITI board and international secretariat are the guardians of that methodology. Implementation, however, is the responsibility of individual countries. The EITI standard, in a nutshell, is a globally developed standard that promotes revenue transparency at local level. The EITI rules establish the methodology that countries must follow to become fully compliant with the EITI.

As much as I am a big supporter of the EITI, however, I believe that more than a decade since its establishment—and a productive first decade it has been—the EITI needs to go further in its transparency work. As the report advocates in its recommendations, the time has come for the EITI to publish contracts between mining companies and Governments. The “Publish What You Pay” campaign suggests that such publication would help to expose any contracts that are patently disadvantageous to the country concerned. We only have to look at many countries in Africa to realise that they are mineral-rich, but money is not going back into those countries for Governments to invest for the benefit of their people, not just the higher echelons in society. It is important that such publication goes ahead.

Photo of Malcolm Bruce Malcolm Bruce Chair, International Development Committee, Chair, International Development Committee

My hon. Friend is making a valuable contribution with her important speech, but does she acknowledge that, prior to the emergence of the EITI, we had situations, such as in Angola, where BP, to its credit, wanted to publish information on the taxes it paid and was basically told by the corrupt Minister who was pocketing those taxes that if BP did so, it would be thrown out of the country and not be allowed to continue its activities? The EITI has done an awful lot to prevent such things, thereby exposing those countries and Governments that will not sign up.

Photo of Pauline Latham Pauline Latham Conservative, Mid Derbyshire

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. Some companies do want to do the right thing by publishing information so that people in those countries know how much money is going to the Government that could be invested in health, education, women’s rights and the whole gamut of things that we try to promote through our international development money. It is important that EITI goes further.

The thing that disappoints me, and has obviously disappointed my right hon. Friend and the hon. Member for Birmingham, Northfield, is that although we were the founders of the EITI, we are not a member. The report states:

“If the Government genuinely hopes to encourage more developing countries to sign up for EITI, it must be willing to lead by example.”

As with the tax we are not collecting, we must sign up to the initiative.

Recommendation 11 suggests that the UK should become a member and that the EITI should request the publication of contracts. The Department for International Development has responded by saying it “partially agrees,” and I am therefore partially pleased, but I urge the Government to re-examine their position on that recommendation. Rather like the tax that the Chancellor has not been collecting from companies in this country, we must lead by example by getting our own house in order before we tell anyone else how to run their country—not that we should be telling other people how to run their country. We should assist countries by giving them best practice, which is an important point for Britain to lead in the world.

I hope the report will make a real difference to the economies of developing countries, because it is one of the most important reports since I became a member of the Committee.

Photo of Andrew Stunell Andrew Stunell Liberal Democrat, Hazel Grove 2:18, 17 January 2013

I am delighted to take part in this debate. I have been away from the real world for the past two and a half years, but I have now returned, which gives me an opportunity to join in with some of these things that have wider significance.

Before the last general election, I spent an interesting and helpful year on the Select Committee on International Development. I remember a number of reports from that time, but two seem relevant to the report before us. One was “Aid Under Pressure”, which considered the pressures of the worldwide downturn and climate change. That report stated that development needs in the third world are as pressing now as they ever have been, and that there are significant problems that must be confronted. The second relevant report was on urbanisation, which documented the fact that we are now at the tipping point where half the world’s population lives in urban areas. We live not in an agricultural world, but an urban one. In many cases, that means that there are far more small-scale enterprises with productive outputs, with the possibility of their raising revenue for public services. The challenges of doing that are immense, because so many of those enterprises are informal and the land that they are on is often held informally. I remember visiting Nigeria and looking at a DFID project to facilitate the registration of land rights. Property cannot be taxed if the owner is not known. A business cannot be made to pay tax on anything if its existence is not known. The report is a logical follow-through on that, considering the next steps that need to happen.

In so far as establishing my credentials goes, I should say that I, too, met the Christian Aid bus when it came to my constituency. Perhaps hon. Members present who did not meet the bus should draw that to our attention!

Successive UK Governments should take pride in the achievements of the UK in supporting and promoting international development and in the aid targets we have set ourselves and are now, under this Government, achieving. But as Richard Burden said eloquently, not all our constituents think we are on the right track. They are critical of many aspects of our aid programme. It is therefore important not only that we assert the reasons for having an international development programme, but that we require countries that we are helping to have systems of governance, public administration and taxation that are robust enough to support development in their own right, as far as they can. This document’s recommendations seem to point in the right direction. I will make some points about that in a moment.

All this has to be underpinned by a much wider understanding inside the UK about why it is important to support international development. There is a moral case—many people, perhaps including those on the Christian Aid bus, would put that well at the front as the best reason—but we must recognise that for many of our constituents the moral case is ambiguous at best and, at a time when our economy and public services are under pressure, it is not self-evident in every respect.

We need to make the utilitarian argument as well. If we want less worldwide conflict and migration and we want growth in UK trade and more exports and jobs, we need a peaceful, well-developed world. It is in the UK’s interests to support that and to encourage it to happen.

Of course, those who would criticise the international aid programme would always centre on the criticism that says that it is all wasted and that corruption and, as this report documents, evasion mean that the people there are not doing all they can to help themselves. I go strongly on the moral case, but I always think it is important to say to my constituents that there is an essential utilitarian case for aid as well.

This document goes some way to showing that you can have your cake and eat it. Part of the aid and development programme is about helping countries stand on their own feet and showing how our aid and development programme, and the UK’s policies, can contribute to that desirable aim of having free-standing, self-supporting third world countries that can prosper without the need for subventions from this country or others.

The report contains 16 recommendations. The Government have accepted seven, partially accepted six and disagreed—they do not say “rejected”, which would be too abrupt—with three. Seven yeses, six maybes and three noes. Not all of the 16 recommendations are of equal significance or importance in terms of getting us in the right direction. I am delighted that the Government have accepted seven. Having looked at the recommendations and the Government’s responses, there is nothing that I need to comment on. However, I am sorry about the other nine recommendations and I want to spend a little bit of time picking out one or two of those.

On the partial agreement on getting sound, transparent tax regimes, recommendation 4 states that the Treasury should be pressing Crown dependencies to meet those standards. Clearly, what is good enough for the United Kingdom ought to be good enough for our Crown dependencies as well. The Government’s somewhat wishy-washy response about whether they thought it was a good thing, an achievable thing or anything to do with them was a little bit disappointing. I hope that my hon. Friend the Minister, whom I also welcome to her role, will be a little bit more robust than the Government have been in their formal response and will say that this transparency question is important.

The Government say that they do not want to go any further than the global forum concept, but that does not seem sufficient. They have described it as not being the most fruitful way forward. I encourage my hon. Friend the Minister to tell us what is the most fruitful way forward and how the British Government intend to adopt that, instead of the Committee’s recommendation. Obviously, if the recommendation is being rejected because the Government want to go further, I am with them on that. But it is a good idea for them to spell that out to us more solidly.

The Government disagree with recommendation 6, relating to the UK getting something comparable to the US Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, saying that they are

“fully committed to tackling tax evasion and” see

“transparency and information exchange as key tools but” do not think that this is an appropriate means to achieve it. There is some wording that I am almost certain the Minister did not put in—it sounds as though Treasury civil servants added it—saying that that Act

“has created significant difficulties for the US”.

Perhaps the Minister could spell out what those significant difficulties are. The US does not seem to think that it has significant difficulties. It is fine to turn down the best machine tool we have because we think that the blade is a bit blunt, but if the people using the tool find that it is working perfectly well, we should have an independent assessment of that or a reassessment by the Government.

The Government response says:

“The aim of this overall approach is to develop a comprehensive network of tax information exchange agreements which will enable the UK”—


“and others to gain access”.

It seems as though they are offering to do everything that does not do anything, and not getting down to the nitty-gritty of what will make a difference. The Committee came up with a valuable, practical and operational way of doing it, which the United States Government are putting in place. It is for this Government to say more distinctly what they intend to do instead, not simply that they do not think that that is appropriate to UK circumstances.

Recommendation 10 is about ministerial responsibility. My hon. Friend the Minister and I, until fairly recently, had some shared experience of ministerial responsibility. I tempt her to agree that the time has come to set up yet another of those inter-ministerial groups, which draws together people from different Departments to consider in the round and with professional support exactly how the Government can do things. Unless I am very much mistaken, my hon. Friend has a piece of paper in front of her stating that the Government are always joined up, they always work together and nothing ever drops between the gaps. I entirely support her interpretation of events, but a minor reinforcement of the process by the setting up of an inter-ministerial group could be a further helpful step in the right direction.

Recommendation 13 relates to CDC, which has had what might be called a chequered media profile, and I remember some discussions from when I was on the International Development Committee, as well as the media comment. It is disappointing that the Government have not sought to turn CDC into a much more outward-looking and ethical institution. It ought to be a transparency exemplar when promoting commercial aid and development projects in different countries. There ought to be no question of stuff not being automatically available. Indeed, the Government response is in partial agreement:

“CDC is committed to obtaining further improvements in tax transparency and disclosure, but this will take time.”

Basically, implementation of the Committee’s recommendation would result in CDC overall doing less, not more investment in poorer countries. Paradoxically, however, the response goes on to state that the CDC will continue

“to ensure…fair and full payment of taxes by its investee companies to the countries in which they are based.”

That is fine, but the problem that the Government seem to be claiming is inhibiting their adoption of the Committee recommendation is that they do not want to put the companies at a commercial disadvantage by making them more transparent in their tax affairs, and yet they go on to say that they will ensure that those taxes are paid.

For a company that is supported or invested in by CDC and that is performing in such a country, to pay all its taxes as it should would put it at a commercial disadvantage to every other company in that country, which would not be paying its taxes. The disadvantage is in whether it has paid the tax and not in whether it tells people that the tax is paid. The Government have somewhat confused themselves, and I would like them to convert their partial agreement into full agreement with recommendation 13. We have a particular piece of kit—CDC—that is in British Government hands and ownership, so it should be used as the absolute paradigm of good behaviour and best practice in promoting investment.

I hope that gives a flavour of how I believe the Government should respond, but I also want to make a point to do with the lobbying—the presentation—by my good friends in Christian Aid and the consortium; it relates to the £160 billion. No one, and I am sure that the Government do not make this mistake, should imagine that the £160 billion is floating around, waiting to be used for development in third-world countries. If the money comes from somewhere, it will presumably come from the profits of the companies—some would say no bad thing—but if it comes from those profits, the companies would be less profitable, which itself has implications. I am afraid, although it is not necessarily a zero-sum game, it is certainly not a £160-billion-sum game, and we need to be realistic about that.




With the embarrassing noises going on in the background, I draw my remarks to a close.

Photo of Rushanara Ali Rushanara Ali Shadow Minister (International Development) 2:34, 17 January 2013

I congratulate the Chair of the International Development Committee, Sir Malcolm Bruce, on opening the debate. I commend the work of the Committee members on this important report and its insights into and contribution to the subject of tax in developing countries. The Opposition very much welcome the nature of the report and its hard-hitting recommendations. Alongside the recommendations already adopted by the Government, we hope that the Minister and her colleagues will look hard and closely at the others discussed by hon. Members, including my hon. Friend Richard Burden, which have the potential to make a significant contribution if furthered by the UK Government.

Government Members and my hon. Friend have highlighted in the debate and through their work in the Committee and elsewhere that tax and public finance are the backbone of governance, state-building and effectiveness in any society. They are a vital component of public accountability and democracy. If the international community can do one thing to transform positively the politics and governance of developing countries, enabling them to become self-sufficient, it is to support efforts to collect the correct tax revenue and to ensure that it is spent properly, free from corruption.

The right hon. Member for Gordon mentioned a number of examples of progress being made thanks to investment over a number of years by DFID and others. Countries such as Rwanda and Tanzania, among others, give us signs of hope about how much progress can be made if we make the right investments and help with capacity building, supporting those countries to make the transformative changes to build their states and systems so as to be able to generate the kind of revenues to which they are entitled but which are currently being lost. As made clear by the Committee, we can therefore genuinely look forward to the opportunity for developing countries to be much less dependent on aid, which is surely in the best interests of the countries concerned, as well as of those countries contributing to the aid budget. It would not mean that developing countries will not need our support, but it would mean that they become more independent and self-sufficient, which is exactly what people in those countries want. Our duty is to ensure that we make the contribution and the changes, and to show the leadership required to enable that to happen.

A legitimate and accountable system for tax revenue is therefore critical to alleviating poverty, which my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Northfield highlighted eloquently in his speech. He also spoke highly of the contributions of campaigning organisations such as Christian Aid, and I want to mention the campaign efforts of ActionAid, which has done a great deal of work with political parties across the board and with the Committee.

The report points out that in excess of $13 trillion may be hidden in tax havens, and that the estimated cost to developing countries per annum is likely to be around £160 billion, a figure far exceeding the global aid budget. Imagine what could be achieved if that money was available to deal with global poverty.

I want to focus on a number of themes, some of which have already been discussed. I shall pick out three key recommendations of the Committee. I want to discuss controlled foreign companies and the Government’s response to the Committee’s recommendation of UK candidateship of the extractive industries transparency initiative. Hon. Members have raised both issues, but I have a few questions. The third area is the Government’s response to the Committee’s recommendation on the Commonwealth Development Corporation.

The report addresses the Government’s relaxation of their anti-tax-haven law—the controlled foreign companies rules. As my hon. Friend said, the Prime Minister demanded bold steps from his fellow G8 leaders when the UK took over its presidency. He pledged that the UK chairmanship would, among other things, focus on tackling tax dodging. However, the current reforms to CFC rules do not meet the Government’s rhetoric. Although we appreciate the need to reform those rules to provide certainty and an attractive climate for businesses based in the UK, there are, as the report and hon. Members here today pointed out, real concerns among Members of Parliament and organisations that campaign on the issue that that will lead to a setback and damage the prospect of developing countries being able to raise the sort of revenue that they have raised in the past.

Action Aid said of the changes that

“a significant deterrent that discourages UK-based companies from shifting profits from developing countries to tax havens” will be lost, and estimates that reforms may cost developing countries as much as £4 billion. If that is true, as many have indicated is likely, it is a scandal that the Government will preside over the change, and shameful that they will not consider the matter and take on board the Committee’s recommendation to carry out the impact assessment. That recommendation was also made by my party during discussion of the 2012 Finance Bill when an amendment was tabled to ask the Government to reconsider.

Will the Minister work with her colleagues in the Treasury and consider the matter again? As hon. Members have said today, the climate is right, and the opportunity exists—the British public are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers and immorality of tax avoidance as well as tax evasion—for the Minister to work with her colleagues to ensure that the change does not damage prospects for people in developing countries, and that the loss of revenue does not happen. The sum is £4 billion, although the Government dispute that, but even if it is less it is a significant sum, which could make a difference to some of the poorest people in some of the poorest countries in the world.

Pauline Latham raised the important issue of the EITI, and I want to reiterate her point. Given the leadership role taken by the former Labour Secretary of State, Clare Short, and others—the British Government are recognised as having achieved this important development—it is right and it is time that the Government signed up to the EITI.

We would show not only that we were the initiator, but that successive Governments have led by example, and this seems to be an opportune time to do so. Will the Minister work with her colleagues to reconsider the recommendation, and move from disagreeing to agreeing?

Andrew Stunell referred to a key recommendation on CDCs, and it is clear that there are inconsistencies in what the Government are saying. Surely it is more appropriate and sensible to put serious weight behind transparency, and this is an important way in which to do so. Will the Minister say whether the Government will reconsider? The issue is tied in with country-by-country reporting by multinationals, not only in the extractive industries, but multinationals generally. Many are increasingly under public scrutiny for some of their actions, which people believe are unethical, and are attempting to improve their behaviour. The Government should show leadership, and one way of doing so is to increase country-by-country reporting and transparency. I hope that the Minister will look at the matter again, consider the views represented in the Chamber and expressed by the Select Committee, and rethink the Government’s position.

To reiterate a point that others have made, this issue is critical, but some people will say that it is not the most—

Photo of Rushanara Ali Rushanara Ali Shadow Minister (International Development)

The Minister used the word, and I will not repeat it. The issue is significant. If we get it right, tax and revenue raising for development will be a major contribution. It is not a magic bullet, but if there were something close to one, this is it. The Select Committee’s contribution in pulling the evidence together and highlighting the scope for action comes at an important moment. The public are leading the debate through their campaigning in the domestic arena, and people are increasingly recognising the immorality of tax evasion and avoidance, and this is an opportunity for the Under-Secretary of State for International Development, Lynne Featherstone, and her Government to consider how to close those tax loopholes and to ensure that countries receive the revenue that is generated but that they are losing. The Government must provide the necessary support to make that happen. I hope she will take on board the questions and issues that have been raised today.

Photo of Lynne Featherstone Lynne Featherstone The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for International Development 2:47, 17 January 2013

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this afternoon, Sir Roger. I thank and congratulate my right hon. Friend Sir Malcolm Bruce on securing this important debate. I also thank him and the International Development Committee for providing a wide-ranging and thought-provoking report. Finally, I thank all those who provided evidence to the inquiry, which included representatives of business, leading academics and non-governmental organisations. Many points have been raised, and I will address as many as possible in the time left to me, but I want so make some general comments.

I agree with the Committee on the significant role that effective tax systems play in helping developing countries to increase their national prosperity and reducing aid dependency, so I welcome the broader parliamentary debate on the issue. Taxation is at the heart of what the Prime Minister described as the golden thread of development. As has been said, helping developing countries to mobilise domestic resources offers the only sustainable alternative to aid for the funding of public services. At the same time, taxation is an important part of governance and state building. It builds the relationship between citizens and the Government, making states more effective. Fair and transparent tax collection promotes social cohesion, shapes Government legitimacy, promotes accountability of Governments to tax-paying citizens, and stimulates effective state administration and good public financial management.

Taxation is a very important part of economic policy, for growth, trade, investment and private sector development, as well as for meeting environmental challenges. The coalition Government are committed to supporting developing countries to access sustainable sources of revenue and to collect the tax that they are due.

My right hon. Friend Andrew Stunell asked if not this, what is the most fruitful way? That could be applied to many issues raised today. Apart from international negotiations and conferences, the most fruitful way this country can work with and help Governments across the developing world on this issue is through our world-respected and professional technical assistance on tax. We are lucky in this country, because we have Her Majesty’s Treasury to tell us how to do things. The rest of the world is not so fortunate and that expertise—[Interruption.] Why are people murmuring laughter at our being so fortunate? It is one of our principal talents and skills, and we can offer the world that expertise and really make a difference. I will come on to Zambia in a minute, because as my right hon. Friend the Member for Gordon said, there has been a huge achievement in terms of tax revenue collection, but there are also some holes in the system.

The IDC’s report acknowledged the value of support that the UK provides to revenue authorities. DFID’s work with partner countries on tax includes 48 tax programmes across 20 countries, totalling around £20 million a year. Our support is focused on where we can make the most difference and get the best results for our developing country partners. As several hon. Members have mentioned, we also need to deliver the best value for money for UK taxpayers. Most of DFID’s work on tax is at a country level. Projects are managed by staff who live and work in the country, which means that projects can be responsive and demand-led. Tax projects may focus specifically on strengthening revenue collection or on broader objectives, such as public financial management reform or public sector reform.

In Afghanistan, which my right hon. Friend touched on, from 2007 to 2012 we helped increase tax revenues from 4% of GDP to 11.6%, helping the Afghan Government to finance the delivery of basic services. Last month, the Secretary of State for International Development was in Afghanistan, extending that support to the Afghanistan Revenue Department until 2016 with the aim of increasing revenue collection to 15%. In Ethiopia, HMRC’s support to the Ethiopian Revenues and Customs Authority, together with other support, helped to reduce average customs clearance times: for example, low-risk imports went from seven days to 10 minutes, and exports from eight hours to 15 minutes. Those are huge barriers to have removed. In Rwanda, the UK helped to provide the laws and regulation under which the Rwanda Revenue Authority was established, and the office building and management systems. The authority reached a point at which it was collecting the full £24 million of DFID’s 10-year support programme every three weeks, and its effectiveness has been an important factor in Rwanda’s impressive record on development performance.

Building capacity of revenue authorities is important and, as other hon. Members have said, so is ensuring revenues are spent effectively. We do that in a number of ways. We recognise the importance and value of transparency in tackling tax evasion. The global issues referred to in the report have been getting more attention, and are rising up the agenda. Although not good, it has been helpful to see those corporate moves that meant that the large companies referred to in this debate paid so little in this country over a number of years. That has made the issue of how corporations use tax systems in different countries to move around their profits more understandable to the wider public, and that is a great motivator. The Prime Minister has put tax evasion and avoidance right at the top of the agenda for the G8 and is focusing on fixing the issue here, too.

I want to address some specific issues that have been raised. A number of hon. Members raised the issue of the EITI. In terms of our membership, the UK is a real supporter of the EITI, and first thought of it, but we did not implement it in the past because the IMF did not consider us resource rich. Greater transparency in the extractive sector will be an important focus of the UK’s G8 presidency in 2013. As others have said, the UK can hardly call on other countries to implement the EITI or live up to high standards if we are not prepared to do so ourselves. That is why the Prime Minister called for an urgent review of the UK’s position on EITI. We expect that review to be concluded by the end of January. We provide support to the EITI International Secretariat and the EITI multi-donor trust fund, which provides technical assistance to implementing countries and represents the UK on the EITI board. Our bilateral programmes support EITI candidacy and/or implementation: for example, in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Nigeria, Afghanistan and Burma.

[Mr Charles Walker in the Chair]

At the moment, a decision has not been taken on the publication process of the EITI review, but the broadening of the scope was also raised. The Government welcome the review of the EITI that is under way to develop a broader standard for consideration by the EITI board, with a view to possible introduction in 2014. The UK is an active participant in the strategy review, which is a multi-stakeholder process, considering a wide range of proposals that could be included in a revised standard. As was raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Derbyshire (Pauline Latham), the proposals include

disclosure of contracts, more disaggregated reporting of data and background on the sector, among other things.

A number of hon. Members raised FATCA, or the US Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act. The Government are fully committed to tackling tax evasion. As we stated in the Government response to the Committee, we do not regard the unilateral introduction of a version of the US FATCA in all its glory—so to speak—in the UK as the means to achieve automatic information exchange, because FATCA is unilateral and extraterritorial in its approach. For example, it imposes severe withholding taxes on those that do not comply. While I cannot elaborate at this point on the significant difficulties that have been created for the US as well as the companies affected by its implementation, I am happy to undertake to write to my right hon. Friend the Member for Hazel Grove on that issue.

That said, as hon. Members may be aware, the Government have signed an agreement with the United States of America. It is the first of its kind and it will significantly increase the amount of information automatically exchanged between both countries. As announced at the autumn statement, the Government see that as testing a new international standard in tax transparency. Obviously, when we see how that goes, the Government will look to conclude similar agreements with other jurisdictions. The UK and the Isle of Man have jointly announced our intentions to conclude an enhanced automatic tax information exchange agreement, based on the UK-US FATCA agreement. We are also in similar discussions with the other Crown dependencies and the overseas territories. The Government commend the great leadership of the Isle of Man in this area. The G20, of course, is committed to strengthening tax transparency and the exchange of information.

Photo of Richard Burden Richard Burden Chair, International Development Sub-Committee on the Work of the Independent Commission for Aid Impact, Chair, International Development Sub-Committee on the Work of the Independent Commission for Aid Impact

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. If I understand her correctly—I hope she will tell me if I have got this wrong—in terms of the outline agreements that are being reached with the United States and the work that is being done in relation to overseas territories, are the Government saying that they see those as a kind of pilot scheme for a more extensive automatic transfer of information? If so, that sounds like a good thing. If not, there is still a gap. What about the wider application of automatic transfer of information?

Photo of Lynne Featherstone Lynne Featherstone The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for International Development

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I cannot give him the comfort that he seeks that it is the Government’s intention, if what he refers to works, to extend it right across the world, but we are extending it and looking at it. If it provides a good model, we will obviously look at it again to see what application it might have in what jurisdictions.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Gordon raised the issue of Pakistan. I believe that hon. Members may have taken representations or evidence this morning. I understand that that is a real issue, because Pakistan has one of the lowest rates of tax collection, averaging only 10% of GDP in recent years. An improved tax regime is the key priority for DFID in Pakistan. The importance of improving Pakistan’s tax-to-GDP ratio is raised regularly in our engagement with senior Government representatives there, as it is by the IMF and other donors. We raise it; the issue is trying to get an effect and a change in the circumstances there. DFID is involved in strategic dialogue about the World Bank’s support on revenue at federal level and also contributes analytical work—for example, on the political economy of tax reform. We are supporting wider public financial management reform in some provinces. That includes the strengthening of revenue policy. This is a major issue, on which we are putting a lot of emphasis.

There was frustration about the willingness of elites to pay tax in developing countries. It is true: the elites are very reluctant to pay. How can we expect everyone else to be paying tax in a country if the elites are not setting an example? As an example, I refer to what DFID has done in Burundi. As ever, I hear what my right hon. Friend says about the Select Committee’s view on Burundi. He has made that case both publicly and privately on many occasions. However, there is the recent example of DFID supporting the Office Burundais des Recettes. A public outcry has led to MPs and Ministers paying tax for the first time. It is something if one can raise the issue to the point at which there is a public voice about the accountability of the Government in terms of setting the prime example. My right hon. Friend made the point that if Prime Ministers and MPs do not pay their taxes, it is pretty hard to say to the rest of the country and to the elites, “You should be paying tax.”

I do not want to go on for too long. The Chair has changed—it is a great pleasure to speak under your chairmanship, Mr Walker—and my right hon. Friend the Member for Gordon must introduce the second debate. However, I want to address a couple of things. One issue that was raised quite often was the Starbucks effect and what we are doing in this country about that. The Government are taking significant steps to ensure that everyone, including multinational companies, pays their fair share of tax. The response is twofold. There is support for international action. Alongside France and Germany, we are providing additional resources to the OECD to speed up the international efforts on dealing with profit shifting by multinationals and erosion of the corporate tax base at global level. The OECD will deliver a progress report to the G20 in February 2013 on actions to tackle the issues of base erosion and profit shifting.

There is also further investment in HMRC. HMRC will expand its risk assessment capability across the large business sector and increase its specialist transfer pricing resources to speed up its work to identify and challenge multinationals’ transfer pricing arrangements. The Government relentlessly challenge those that persist in avoiding tax and have recovered £29 billion of additional revenues from large businesses in the last six years, including £4.1 billion in the last four years from transfer inquiries alone.

A number of hon. Members raised the issues brought up by Christian Aid and ActionAid in relation to the costs of evasion and avoidance. As has been discussed, the estimates are numerically disputed, but the bigger point is that despite suggestions that the estimates of tax evasion and avoidance have been agreed by the OECD, the figures have not been endorsed by any of the OECD’s committees. The key point is that evasion and avoidance are undoubtedly significant challenges for developing countries and that the Government are committed to providing support, but as I have said, tax capacity building and technical assistance are the primary issues.

I want to deal with the country-to-country reporting model or rather the broader one, not the one that is being considered for the EU directive, which is for the smaller view. The big ask is the model whereby all multinationals disclose information that goes beyond payments to Governments. This model has been discussed in the OECD task force on tax and development without any consensus being reached on its merits. The Government believe that the case has not been made for the effectiveness of this model in achieving its objectives while minimising costs to business. It is not being called for by developing countries, but the Government do agree that many developing countries do need to improve their ability to assess transfer pricing risk and detect abusive profit shifting and that other options, such as the transfer pricing transaction schedule described in recommendation 7, could offer more proportionate and effective help.

A number of hon. Members raised the issue of a DFID Minister for tax. I have to say, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Hazel Grove rightly predicted I would, that the development impact of UK tax and fiscal policy is a collective responsibility for all members of Government. DFID, the Treasury and HMRC all work together. [Laughter.] Did my right hon. Friend read my brief? However, the UK is committed to helping developing countries to build robust, fair and sustainable domestic taxation systems and, having listened to what was said, I propose to consider the proposal that was made for an inter-ministerial group. I will take that away with me. I am not promising anything, but I want to look at how that is referenced. There are many discussions across Government. Her Majesty’s Treasury is everywhere across Government, as I am sure hon. Members in this room are well aware, but if what was proposed would be a productive way forward, I am certainly prepared to look at it in the future.

The last issue that I will address, because I have gone over my time slightly, is the request by the International Development Committee on scaling up. The report acknowledges the value of technical assistance provided by DFID and HMRC to national revenue authorities in developing countries and recommends that work in this area is scaled up. I agree completely. I have been in post for four months now and have been looking at this issue. Tax is high on the agenda. It is high on the agenda for the G8. It seems to me that the most successful and most useful thing that we have done as a Government in terms of enabling developing countries to operate is to enable them to be the masters of their tax collection and their tax systems.

I was in Zambia, too, and Zambia did fail some of the tests set by the IDC in terms of the provision of information. We are looking at that. But in Zambia, I did meet representatives of the audit committee, the public accounts committee and the Office of Public Prosecutions. All of them are taking on this agenda in a way that I have not seen in many places. There really is a desire for them to collect the revenue and for us to help them—enable them—to do that and do it well.

I am sorry that I have not addressed all the points that were made. There is unanimity across this room and, indeed, everywhere that it is important to deal with tax avoidance and tax evasion not just because that would enable countries to fund their own public services and to begin to achieve separation in terms of aid dependency, but because there is moral rectitude in paying one’s fair share. In this country, as others have said, we stand proudly on our commitment to 0.7% of GDP in a political environment that is challenging; there have been attacks on us for that. We have to show that every penny counts and every taxpayer pound is spent wisely. One of the ways in which we do that best is by helping to ensure that tax revenues can be collected across the world. Those who travel across the world and talk to the Governments of the world and civil society across the world will know that the position is variable across the world. We are making progress, but there is still progress to be made.

I thank all Members for their contributions. I thank the Committee again for drawing attention to this subject and for recognising the valuable work the UK is doing. The IDC has made a valuable contribution to the new shape of our programme for tax.

Photo of Charles Walker Charles Walker Chair, Procedure Committee, Chair, Procedure Committee

Order. May I ask Sir Malcolm Bruce to respond briefly to this debate and then to move seamlessly into his opening remarks for the next debate?

Photo of Malcolm Bruce Malcolm Bruce Chair, International Development Committee, Chair, International Development Committee 3:10, 17 January 2013

I will speak just for the time it takes the Minister of State to assume his place.

I thank the Minister for her response. There are clearly differences between the Committee’s recommendations and the Government’s view. Even if the Government are not willing to accept our specific recommendations, may I say in a constructive spirit that I hope they will strenuously undertake to do everything they can to encourage greater transparency nationally and internationally, using whatever mechanisms they think will work? We would certainly expect them to pursue that issue, because the domestic and international agendas have coincided.

The Minister’s example of the work the Revenue has done shows how difficult transfer pricing is for a country such as the UK, but it is 10 times more difficult for small developing countries with virtually no capacity, which is why they need support. I am therefore grateful to her for saying that the scaling-up of this activity is being actively considered. We on the Committee always say that what we are really interested in is what works, and this activity works, so we need more of it.