I did not recognise that description, but I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way. I want to challenge the suggestion by his Front-Bench colleague that I described the current position as trivial for the trusts involved. The key point that the hon. Gentleman and other hon. Members are bringing out is not the burgeoning of an NHS bureaucracy, which is often the butt of attacks by Opposition Members, but the chronic under-management, over many years, of parts of the NHS and, indeed, the dire need for talented public sector accountants and others involved in information and communications technology. I declare an interest as a member of both professions. Is that not the issue, rather than the construct that the hon. Gentleman is trying to sell to the House at the moment?