First Minister’s Question Time – in the Scottish Parliament at on 23 January 2025.
Anas Sarwar
Labour
Our national health service and social care system is in permanent crisis under the Scottish National Party. One route to solving the crisis lies in tackling delayed discharge, where a patient is medically cleared to go home but cannot, often due to the lack of a care package. In the words of Dr Iain Kennedy of the British Medical Association,
“The key to unlocking the front door of our hospitals lies at the back door.”
However, under the SNP, delayed discharge has soared.
On Monday, I raised the case of Yvonne, a 68-year-old grandmother from Auchterarder who is living with multiple sclerosis. Despite being medically cleared to go home, she had to spend an extra two months in hospital waiting for a care package. In desperation, she took to wearing T-shirts that said, “Can I go home now?” and “Bed blocker”. How have John Swinney and Neil Gray allowed the situation to get so bad?
John Swinney
Scottish National Party
The issues around delayed discharge are complex because, in essence, they rely on the strength and capacity of the social care system in Scotland. That is the key question that the Government is addressing in the steps that we are taking to ensure that the health service and the care system meet the needs of the public in Scotland.
One of the steps that we are taking to try to make the position better—I accept that the situation that Mr Sarwar has put to me is not acceptable—is to put in place a record funding settlement for the health service, which will strengthen social care. We are also delivering a real-terms increase in local authority budgets so that local authorities are able to contribute more to health and social care partnerships to ensure that more social care places are available at local level. Those are practical and tangible actions that the Government is taking to address the situation.
Anas Sarwar
Labour
The fact is that it is getting worse, not better, under this Government. In 2015, the SNP pledged to end delayed discharge, but—much like its pledges on waiting times, accident and emergency performance and social care—things have got worse, not better. On any given day, around 2,000 Scots are stuck in hospital, despite being cleared to leave.
Over the past decade, we have had five health secretaries, and the cost of their collective failure to deal with the situation has risen to more than £1.5 billion. The biggest price has been paid by countless Scots who have been failed as the situation has deteriorated.
However, apparently, we are not to worry. We are told that the self-described “full-on John” is rolling up his sleeves and taking personal charge of the crisis that his party has created in our NHS. Given that he already rolled up his sleeves and wrecked our education system and rolled up his sleeves and wrecked the public finances, is it any wonder that Scots fear for the future of our NHS under the SNP?
Alison Johnstone
Green
I remind members that we do not use nicknames in the chamber.
John Swinney
Scottish National Party
There will be no worry on that front from me, Presiding Officer.
I am really touched that Mr Sarwar is taking such a close interest in all my press interviews. That suggests that he is a bit touchy about things these days. It suggests that he is perhaps a little bit worried about his position and that he is not quite as confident that he is heading in the direction of Bute house. However, if he is that worried, that tells us that we are on the right course in what we are doing.
Over the course of the past few weeks and months, a number of important steps have been taken by the Government to strengthen the availability of social care in our country. Some of the steps that we are taking are the expansion of frailty units, which are associated with A and E departments; the expansion of the hospital-at-home system, which is designed to care for individuals in their own homes and provide them with clinical care so that they avoid being in hospital; and the support that has been put in place in relation to the strengthening of general practitioner practices, which, of course, is not helped by the United Kingdom Government’s changes to employer national insurance contributions.
Of course, there is a big decision coming up for the Parliament in the next few weeks—the decision about the budget. The budget delivers a record financial settlement for the health service and a real-terms increase for local authority funding to support the social care system. The big question is whether Labour will support the Government in our investment in the social care system.
Anas Sarwar
Labour
With that answer, it is clear that John Swinney will not be joining Nicola Sturgeon at the Glasgow comedy festival. However, come May 2026, he will be joining her as an ex-First Minister of this country, because the SNP’s record on the NHS is one of abject failure. Our NHS and care system is in permanent crisis, and we have a health secretary in whom no one has confidence. He should be sacked for mismanaging our NHS, not just for misleading this Parliament.
Right now, on the SNP’s watch, more than 863,000 Scots are stuck on an NHS waiting list, and more than 100,000 of them have been waiting for more than a year to be seen. Right now, 2,000 Scots are stuck in hospital. Despite having been medically cleared to leave, they are unable to go home. No matter who it chooses as the latest health secretary, the SNP cannot deliver the new direction that our country needs.
Instead, today, John Swinney will gut his National Care Service (Scotland) Bill, with years having been wasted, millions lost and not a single extra hour of care delivered. Is that not just the latest example that no good idea survives SNP incompetence?
John Swinney
Scottish National Party
Yesterday, I convened a discussion at which stakeholders in the health service discussed all the challenges that we face. I am completely open about the fact that we face challenges in the health service in Scotland today. That is why I convened yesterday’s session, and it is why I am setting out the steps that we are taking to ensure that we have an immediate focus on ensuring that the resources are in place to drive down waiting times and to tackle delayed discharge. That is what we are doing.
One of the participants in yesterday’s discussion raised with me the damage and difficulty that will be faced by general practice because of the imposition of an increase in employer national insurance contributions. Is it not interesting—[ Interruption .]
Alison Johnstone
Green
Let us hear the First Minister.
John Swinney
Scottish National Party
Is it not interesting that the Labour Party and the Labour leader are rather silent on the question of employer national insurance contributions? That is a classic example of the Westminster Government acting in a fashion that will damage the delivery of health and social care in Scotland. [ Interruption .]
Alison Johnstone
Green
Let us hear the First Minister.
John Swinney
Scottish National Party
No amount of shouting at me by Labour members will distract me from pointing out to the public the damage that will be done because of that increase.
What do we find out? We find out that Anas Sarwar is completely and utterly hopeless and powerless in the face of a UK Government that has taken a decision that will damage Scotland’s health and social care system. The people of Scotland know that this Government will protect the interests of Scotland when Anas Sarwar sells them out.
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