First Minister’s Question Time – in the Scottish Parliament at on 23 January 2025.
Russell Findlay
Conservative
Last week, Scotland’s nurses issued a desperate and urgent warning about our broken national health service. Patients in extreme pain are stripped of their dignity and left for hours in accident and emergency departments. Waiting times for life-changing and life-saving operations keep going up. People are not able to get appointments for general practitioners or for dentists. Targets are being missed so often that they have become largely meaningless. Does John Swinney really still have confidence in his health secretary, Neil Gray?
John Swinney
Scottish National Party
Yes, I do. The health secretary and I are deeply engaged in ensuring that there is effective leadership in place to support the national health service to recover from the implications of Covid some years ago and the severe implications of the flu that we have experienced in recent weeks. We are entirely focused on the challenge.
Russell Findlay
Conservative
Our NHS is in a permanent state of turmoil, but Neil Gray is failing to do his job and is refusing to be straight with the public. This week, the health secretary admitted that he misled the Parliament . After taking taxpayer-funded limos to nine football matches, he claimed that they were all to discuss Government business. Crucially, he said that he had all the official notes to prove that, but it turns out that some of the notes do not exist—Neil Gray just made that up. That was his second formal apology to the Parliament. Surely long-suffering patients deserve honest leadership at this time of crisis.
John Swinney
Scottish National Party
That is exactly what patients in Scotland have. [ Interruption .]
On the national health service, I will tell it as it is. That is why the health secretary and I spent a large amount of time on Wednesday with a whole range of stakeholders from across the health sector, who will be crucial in helping us to support the national health service to navigate its way through the challenges that we face because of an ageing population and a significant increase in demand. That is what the health secretary and I are focused on. That is what we are doing this week, and that is what we will be doing henceforward.
Alison Johnstone
Green
I would be grateful if members could avoid shouting out in the chamber.
Russell Findlay
Conservative
With that answer, the First Minister confirms that he is in a state of denial. He appears to have given a free pass to his distracted health secretary, no matter what he does. This afternoon, the planned national care service that Neil Gray is supposed to be in charge of will be scrapped, without having treated a single patient and with tens of millions of pounds down the drain. Neil Gray is giving Humza Yousaf and Michael Matheson a run for their money as the SNP’s worst health secretary. He misled Parliament, but he did not come clean straight away. The truth had to be dragged out of him by the Scottish Conservatives. I have a simple question: when exactly did John Swinney first know that Neil Gray had misled Parliament?
John Swinney
Scottish National Party
All those issues have been set out to Parliament. The health secretary made a statement to Parliament—[ Interruption .]
Alison Johnstone
Green
Let us hear the First Minister.
John Swinney
Scottish National Party
The health secretary came here and raised a point of order on Tuesday, when it was clear from the points that had been raised by the Conservative and Labour members that there was an issue in relation to his original statement. I have dealt with those questions accordingly.
I say to Mr Findlay and to members of the public around the country that they should be assured that their First Minister and their health secretary are absolutely focused on delivering the leadership that is necessary to strengthen and to improve the national health service and to deliver for patients. That is my commitment to Parliament today.
Russell Findlay
Conservative
That is just textbook John Swinney—failing to answer the most simple of questions. If we did not keep raising the issue, Neil Gray would never have admitted that he had misled Parliament over taxpayer-funded limos to the football. That flagrant breach must be investigated by the independent adviser on the ministerial code. John Swinney is standing by Neil Gray, just as he backed Michael Matheson and Humza Yousaf. Patients will continue to be let down by another dishonest, disgraced and distracted health secretary who is failing to bring down waiting lists.
In the real world, if people cannot do their jobs properly or do not tell the truth, they get the sack. Is it not time for John Swinney to show some leadership by sending Neil Gray—in a chauffeur-driven limo, if he likes—to collect his P45?
John Swinney
Scottish National Party
It is important that we put this matter in its proper context. The issue that Neil Gray had to address in Parliament on Tuesday revolved around one word that was inserted in his answer to Stephen Kerr during his parliamentary statement. That one word was the word “all”—a three-letter word—[ Interruption .]
Alison Johnstone
Green
Let us hear the First Minister.
John Swinney
Scottish National Party
In his answer to Neil Bibby and in his original parliamentary statement, there was no issue about the language used by Neil Gray. In one answer, Neil Gray used one word that he should not have used—the word “all”—[ Interruption .]
Alison Johnstone
Green
I would be grateful if those of us who are privileged to sit in the chamber could treat one another with courtesy and respect.
John Swinney
Scottish National Party
On the basis of that fact, I judge that Neil Gray, in taking the action that he has taken, has acted entirely appropriately in his responsibilities to Parliament and in accordance with the ministerial code. Of course, it is up to the independent advisers whom I have appointed to take a different view from the one that I have taken—I will be inviting my independent advisers to consider the view that I have taken, and they will be free to take that decision. That is why I have strengthened the ministerial code, it is why I have strengthened the independent advisers and it is why I have appointed three individuals of eminent reputation to make sure that they can scrutinise these questions.
Fundamentally, what matters to the people of Scotland today is that they have a Government that is focused on the concerns of the people, on making sure that we strengthen the national health service—[ Interruption .]
Alison Johnstone
Green
We will hear the First Minister.
John Swinney
Scottish National Party
—and on bringing down waiting times. That is the focus of the First Minister and the health secretary. The Conservatives do not care about that, but I certainly do.
Question Time is an opportunity for MPs and Members of the House of Lords to ask Government Ministers questions. These questions are asked in the Chamber itself and are known as Oral Questions. Members may also put down Written Questions. In the House of Commons, Question Time takes place for an hour on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays after Prayers. The different Government Departments answer questions according to a rota and the questions asked must relate to the responsibilities of the Government Department concerned. In the House of Lords up to four questions may be asked of the Government at the beginning of each day's business. They are known as 'starred questions' because they are marked with a star on the Order Paper. Questions may also be asked at the end of each day's business and these may include a short debate. They are known as 'unstarred questions' and are less frequent. Questions in both Houses must be written down in advance and put on the agenda and both Houses have methods for selecting the questions that will be asked. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P1 at the UK Parliament site.
Ministers make up the Government and almost all are members of the House of Lords or the House of Commons. There are three main types of Minister. Departmental Ministers are in charge of Government Departments. The Government is divided into different Departments which have responsibilities for different areas. For example the Treasury is in charge of Government spending. Departmental Ministers in the Cabinet are generally called 'Secretary of State' but some have special titles such as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Ministers of State and Junior Ministers assist the ministers in charge of the department. They normally have responsibility for a particular area within the department and are sometimes given a title that reflects this - for example Minister of Transport.
The Conservatives are a centre-right political party in the UK, founded in the 1830s. They are also known as the Tory party.
With a lower-case ‘c’, ‘conservative’ is an adjective which implies a dislike of change, and a preference for traditional values.