First Minister’s Question Time – in the Scottish Parliament at on 12 December 2024.
Russell Findlay
Conservative
Scotland’s schools are critical to the fortunes and future of our country, but after 17 years of Scottish National Party rule, pupils and teachers are being failed. The SNP’s 2021 manifesto promised to increase teacher numbers by 3,500 so, at the very least, they should be rising. Are they rising, First Minister?
John Swinney
Scottish National Party
On Tuesday, the annual teacher census reported that there has been a reduction of 621 in teacher numbers from last year to this year. That was the subject of a statement that the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills made to the Parliament on Tuesday.
In response to that situation, the Government, as part of the budget settlement, has negotiated an agreement with local authorities in which the Government and local authorities will work together to ensure that teacher numbers are restored to 2023 levels, which means that, during the next year, teacher numbers will increase.
Russell Findlay
Conservative
As the First Minister just admitted, Scottish Government figures this week show that teacher numbers are not up by 3,500, as the SNP promised, but down by 600 in this year alone. When he was education secretary, John Swinney promised more teachers, but instead there are fewer. He will not ever accept responsibility. Does he at least accept that the fact that there are fewer teachers is having a negative impact in Scotland’s classrooms?
John Swinney
Scottish National Party
I want to see teacher numbers rising, which is why the Government has negotiated an agreement with local authorities on restoring teacher numbers to their 2023 levels.
However, it is important that we look at the outcomes that are achieved as a consequence of the investments that have been made by the Government and local authorities. Figures that were published this week show record levels of attainment in literacy and numeracy in our schools, and the attainment gap in literacy has reduced to its lowest level ever.
The attainment gap in positive destinations has reduced by 60 per cent since 2009-10—[ Interruption .]
Alison Johnstone
Green
Let us hear the First Minister.
John Swinney
Scottish National Party
In 2022-23, 92.8 per cent of school leavers were in positive destinations nine months after leaving school. Many of those measures were put in place by me as education secretary—[ Interruption .]
Alison Johnstone
Green
Let us hear the First Minister.
John Swinney
Scottish National Party
Many of those measures were put in place by me as education secretary, in recognition of the fact that, if we want to close the poverty-related attainment gap—when poverty has been made worse by the decisions of the most recent Conservative Government in the United Kingdom—we must take long-term action and make a long-term commitment to strengthening education. That is precisely what the Scottish Government has delivered.
Russell Findlay
Conservative
I would need all day to list all the Scottish National Party’s broken promises on the attainment gap. The truth is that fewer teachers are being expected to do more and more, and that is fuelling a collapse in discipline in our schools. Last year alone, there were almost 45,000 recorded incidents of violence and abuse. One teacher told me that female pupils and teachers routinely suffer sexual intimidation and even violence. Girls are too scared to use mixed-sex toilets because they risk being photographed under cubicle doors. As a parent, I would be worried. It would make my blood boil. Frankly, I would be on the warpath.
Those shocking incidents are happening because disruptive pupils know that there are no consequences for their actions. Is it not time for the SNP to crack down on the behaviour of the minority, who are ruining it for the Majority?
John Swinney
Scottish National Party
The Government is taking action to address behaviour in our schools. It is doing so as part of the action plan that the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills has set out to Parliament. Schools are empowered to take decisions that are designed to address unacceptable behaviour. Let me make it absolutely crystal clear that the behaviour that Mr Findlay has recounted to Parliament today, which I know takes place in our schools, is completely and utterly intolerable.
However, I cannot allow Mr Findlay to denigrate the achievements of educators in our schools. The statistics that were published on Tuesday show that there are record levels of attainment in literacy and numeracy in our schools, and I will not have that denigrated by the leader of the Conservative Party.
I can tell Mr Findlay that although the measures that were taken by the most recent Conservative Government exacerbated poverty in our society and have made the challenge that the Scottish Government faces ever greater, this Government will deliver on Scottish education.
Russell Findlay
Conservative
I will say this very slowly for the First Minister. He and his Government have been entirely responsible for Scotland’s education system for 17 years—no one else.
The First Minister mentioned an action plan, but there was also a summit last year, and it did not achieve anything. If a nation’s success was measured in talking shops, Scotland would truly be world leading. Instead of letting violence continue, the SNP must empower teachers to take a tougher approach where necessary, but all that John Swinney has done is to cut teacher numbers, break promises, let standards slip and allow toxic behaviour to spiral out of control.
After 17 years of SNP rule, our schools need change. John Swinney’s way is not working for pupils, it is not working for teachers and it is not working for parents. Is it not plain common sense what our schools need? [ Interruption .]
Alison Johnstone
Green
Let us hear Mr Findlay.
Russell Findlay
Conservative
More discipline and more teachers.
John Swinney
Scottish National Party
I have made it clear that unacceptable behaviour in our schools must be tackled in our schools. We have provided the approaches that are necessary to do that, and schools should feel empowered to do that.
However, we will not be able to increase teacher numbers if we follow Mr Findlay’s plans. This is the third week in which I have reminded Parliament of the folly that Mr Findlay has put in front of us. He has argued for a tax cut of £1 billion in public expenditure, which would reduce public spending by £1 billion. The savings that he has identified total £54 million. There is a £950 million gaping hole—[ Interruption .]
Alison Johnstone
Green
Let us hear the First Minister. I am aware of loud shouts coming from across the chamber. Members, if you have not been called, do not speak.
John Swinney
Scottish National Party
There is a gaping hole of £950 million of public spending cuts in Mr Findlay’s plans. When I watched him being interviewed on television on Sunday, he could not provide one specific answer to any of the questions about where those cuts would come. It was an embarrassing interview, which the Conservative Party should be embarrassed about.
There are school pupils watching this exchange from the gallery and I say that if the behaviour of the members of the Conservative Party in this chamber was prevalent in our country’s schools it would need to be confronted and that the Conservatives are a disgrace to this Parliament.
Question Time is an opportunity for MPs and Members of the House of Lords to ask Government Ministers questions. These questions are asked in the Chamber itself and are known as Oral Questions. Members may also put down Written Questions. In the House of Commons, Question Time takes place for an hour on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays after Prayers. The different Government Departments answer questions according to a rota and the questions asked must relate to the responsibilities of the Government Department concerned. In the House of Lords up to four questions may be asked of the Government at the beginning of each day's business. They are known as 'starred questions' because they are marked with a star on the Order Paper. Questions may also be asked at the end of each day's business and these may include a short debate. They are known as 'unstarred questions' and are less frequent. Questions in both Houses must be written down in advance and put on the agenda and both Houses have methods for selecting the questions that will be asked. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P1 at the UK Parliament site.
Ministers make up the Government and almost all are members of the House of Lords or the House of Commons. There are three main types of Minister. Departmental Ministers are in charge of Government Departments. The Government is divided into different Departments which have responsibilities for different areas. For example the Treasury is in charge of Government spending. Departmental Ministers in the Cabinet are generally called 'Secretary of State' but some have special titles such as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Ministers of State and Junior Ministers assist the ministers in charge of the department. They normally have responsibility for a particular area within the department and are sometimes given a title that reflects this - for example Minister of Transport.
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It is chaired by the prime minister.
The cabinet is bound by collective responsibility, which means that all its members must abide by and defend the decisions it takes, despite any private doubts that they might have.
Cabinet ministers are appointed by the prime minister and chosen from MPs or peers of the governing party.
However, during periods of national emergency, or when no single party gains a large enough majority to govern alone, coalition governments have been formed with cabinets containing members from more than one political party.
War cabinets have sometimes been formed with a much smaller membership than the full cabinet.
From time to time the prime minister will reorganise the cabinet in order to bring in new members, or to move existing members around. This reorganisation is known as a cabinet re-shuffle.
The cabinet normally meets once a week in the cabinet room at Downing Street.
The term "majority" is used in two ways in Parliament. Firstly a Government cannot operate effectively unless it can command a majority in the House of Commons - a majority means winning more than 50% of the votes in a division. Should a Government fail to hold the confidence of the House, it has to hold a General Election. Secondly the term can also be used in an election, where it refers to the margin which the candidate with the most votes has over the candidate coming second. To win a seat a candidate need only have a majority of 1.
The Conservatives are a centre-right political party in the UK, founded in the 1830s. They are also known as the Tory party.
With a lower-case ‘c’, ‘conservative’ is an adjective which implies a dislike of change, and a preference for traditional values.