Michael Matheson (Expenses)

– in the Scottish Parliament at on 16 November 2023.

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Photo of Douglas Ross Douglas Ross Conservative

1. Michael Matheson ran up an £11,000 bill on his iPad and claimed the costs from the taxpayer. It was over the Christmas break, and £7,300 of that bill covered a single day, which was a public holiday. To put that into context, to run up those charges, the health secretary would have needed to have sent 8,000 emails in that one day—that is, an email written and sent every 10 seconds continuously for 24 hours—all while he was in Morocco on holiday. Does the First Minister really believe that Michael Matheson ran up all those costs on parliamentary business—yes or no?

Photo of Humza Yousaf Humza Yousaf Scottish National Party

There is clearly more to say on this issue, which is why Michael Matheson has agreed to make, with the agreement of the Parliament, a personal statement later today. I have no intention of pre-empting that statement. He will lay out in full detail what has happened in relation to use of his iPad.

Michael has, of course, agreed to pay back the full amount. He has admitted to making an honest mistake and, of course, he will elaborate on that and certainly reflect on it. [

Interruption

.]

The First Minister:

I understand that, in our politics, the very first place that we all go to is to think the very worst of each other. I hold my hands up—I have often been guilty of that, too. However, honest mistakes do happen. Michael has been a member of this Parliament since its inception. All of us who have worked with him know that he is a man of honesty and, indeed, of integrity. Instead of rushing to besmirch each other’s characters, perhaps our politics would be a little better if we gave each other the benefit of the doubt.

Michael will lay out in full what has happened in relation to his iPad. The central point is that he has already agreed to pay back—I think that he has, in fact, already done this—the full amount that was incurred on this expense.

Photo of Douglas Ross Douglas Ross Conservative

Humza Yousaf said that it was an honest mistake. He is 50 per cent right with that. He also said that he has no intention of getting into this. Well, I have no intention of letting the First Minister off with that argument, because this goes to the heart of his Government and his actions, and to the impact that this is having on people across Scotland. This morning it emerged that Michael Matheson had cancelled a Government visit to a Glasgow general practice surgery. The health secretary has stopped doing his job because of this. That really matters when Scotland’s national health service is in crisis and we are approaching winter.

It matters if there has been an attempt to dupe taxpayers into paying £11,000. For nearly a year, Michael Matheson was happy for the taxpayer to pick up the bill. He made no attempt to repay it until he was caught. His story is farcical beyond belief.

I will repeat my question to the First Minister. Can he guarantee that Michael Matheson ran up all these costs on parliamentary business—yes or no?

The First Minister:

Again,

Michael Matheson will lay out in full detail what has happened. He has already said, of course—[

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer:

When a question has been put to the First Minister, I am sure that we all want to hear the response. We cannot hear the response when people are shouting from their seats.

The First Minister:

The response is that there is clearly more to it. Douglas Ross is absolutely right on that. What I will not do is pre-empt the personal statement that Michael Matheson has, with the Presiding Officer, agreed to make later this afternoon. He will lay out in full detail what has happened. However, importantly, when Michael Matheson was made aware of that mistake, he took corrective action, and that corrective action was, of course, to repay the full amount.

I disagree entirely with Douglas Ross on the idea that Michael Matheson has been doing anything other than concentrating on the job at hand. That is why, this morning, he was able to announce—we were able to announce—that we have secured the future of community link workers posts in Glasgow, with additional investment of £1.2 million. On top of that, he is the health secretary who ensured that Scotland was the country where there were no junior doctors strikes, and who secured annual funding of £100 million to help to reduce waiting lists.

Michael Matheson is absolutely concentrating on the job at hand, but he will lay out, later this afternoon, the full detail of what has happened in relation to his parliamentary iPad.

Photo of Douglas Ross Douglas Ross Conservative

The health secretary is not doing his job. We know that he refused to comment on shocking accident and emergency waiting times this week because he was worried about questions about his personal conduct. Yes, we need to hear from the health secretary, but this now goes beyond his actions. The First Minister has put his personal reputation on the line.

When the story broke, Humza Yousaf said that the £11,000 bill was a “legitimate expense”. He said that the money did not need to be repaid to the taxpayer. He called Michael Matheson a

“person of integrity and character”.

He said:

“I ... absolutely take Michael at his word.”

He gave him his 100 per cent backing. The First Minister claims that Michael Matheson’s word is more important than the facts, but Humza Yousaf’s integrity is at stake here.

I put a direct question to the First Minister, and he cannot just refer to the statement this afternoon. Does the First Minister still believe, as he did last week—even now, with all the evidence—that the £11,000 bill was a legitimate expense?

The First Minister:

First of all, to get a lecture on principles and integrity from the party that gave us Boris Johnson is quite something. In a week when Douglas Ross’s party’s flagship policy on Rwanda was torn to pieces by the Supreme Court—[

Interruption

.]

The First Minister:

—it is hardly a party to be lecturing anybody on principles—[

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer:

First Minister.

It is absolutely impossible to hear any question or response at the moment, because there is far too much noise coming from members. I ask them to desist.

The First Minister:

As I said, it is clear that more has been discovered in relation to the iPad and the expense. Michael Matheson will make that clear in a statement later this afternoon.

I have absolute confidence in Michael Matheson as the cabinet secretary for health, and I will tell members why. On top of ensuring that we resolved the issue around community link workers posts in Glasgow and that we resolved the junior doctors strikes—[

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer:

I ask you, Mr Hoy, to ensure that that is the last remark that I hear from you when you are not on your feet and have not been called to speak.

The First Minister:

Conservative members do not want to hear it, because it is contrary to their claims.

Michael Matheson is the health secretary who announced £15.6 million of additional funding for the hospital at home scheme this year to deal with winter pressures. He is the health secretary who announced £50 million of funding for the Scottish Ambulance Service, and who is entirely focused on ensuring that the national health service recovers through what will be one of the most difficult winters.

As I said, Michael Matheson, upon discovering what was an honest mistake, paid back the expense in its entirety.

Photo of Douglas Ross Douglas Ross Conservative

It was not “upon discovering” something. He claimed it—he claimed £11,000 from the taxpayer.

All that I have asked Humza Yousaf is this. Does he still agree, as he did last week, that that is a legitimate expense—yes or no? Does he agree that those costs of £11,000 were run up purely on parliamentary business—yes or no? I have asked that three times, and three times I have not had an answer.

The fact is that the First Minister should have immediately launched an investigation into the matter. He should have demanded that Michael Matheson hand over the device to be examined. Instead, he is the last person in Scotland who still believes his health secretary’s ridiculous claim.

If the story changes to be about family or personal usage, that still will not cut it, because it will be nearly a year after the claim, and a week into the scandal. The evidence shows that Michael Matheson claimed £11,000 of taxpayers’ money when he knew that it was not for parliamentary work. It was not just a mistake—it was dishonest.

Will Humza Yousaf do the right thing and sack Michael Matheson, or will he wait for his resignation?

The First Minister:

As I have already demonstrated in my responses to Douglas Ross, Michael Matheson has been concentrating on ensuring that our NHS recovers through what will be one of the most challenging winters that it has faced. That is evidenced by the fact that, over the past few weeks, he has been working diligently to ensure that we are able to fund community link workers posts in Glasgow. I am pleased that we have been able to get a resolution on that matter.

This is, of course, a matter between Michael Matheson, as an MSP, and the parliamentary authorities.

The First Minister:

The Parliament has, of course, made it clear that it has investigated the matter—

The First Minister:

—but

I have, in fact, answered Douglas Ross’s questions.

Photo of Douglas Ross Douglas Ross Conservative

They have not investigated him.

The Presiding Officer:

Excuse me, First Minister.

The First Minister is answering questions.

The Presiding Officer:

Mr Ross!

You have had an opportunity to put questions to the First Minister. It is extremely important that we carry out our business in an orderly fashion and show one another courtesy and respect.

The First Minister:

I have answered Douglas Ross’s question. My answer was that, clearly, more has come to light, as Michael Matheson will make clear in just a couple of hours’ time. That is why he took the decision to repay the full amount of the expense. Michael Matheson will lay that out later this afternoon.

He will then continue to do what he has been doing for weeks and months, which is ensuring that our NHS gets all the support that it needs during one of the most difficult periods in its history.