2. To ask the Scottish Government what steps it is taking to reduce violence in schools, in light of reports that three teachers and a 14-year-old pupil have been injured in a disturbance at a Renfrewshire school. (S6T-01384)

I hope that Jamie Greene appreciates that I cannot comment on the specifics of an on-going police investigation.

However, no teacher or member of staff should suffer verbal or physical abuse at their place of work. It is for schools and local councils to respond to specific instances of challenging behaviour.

Notwithstanding that, I discussed the matter with the Association of Directors of Education in Scotland only last week. I also chaired the Scottish advisory group on relationships and behaviour in schools on Thursday, with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and trade union representatives.

We are currently gathering evidence that will help us to better understand behaviour in our schools at national level through our research on behaviour in Scottish schools, which will report by the end of the year. That will ensure that future policy, guidance and support for our schools’ staff reflects the current challenges in our schools and what is working well.

Finally, I have been engaging with our trade union partners on the issue—most recently, at the Scottish Secondary Teachers’ Association and NASUWT conferences, which were held at the weekend.

Naturally, I will not comment on the specifics of the case. We wish those who are affected a speedy return to the classroom.

However, I will comment on the sad reality that that incident is not unique. There have been 75,000 incidents of physical or verbal attacks by pupils against teachers and school staff over the past five years, not including this year. Last year, there were nearly 20,000 such attacks, including 191 incidents that involved the potential carrying of a dangerous item or weapon. Of those, 64 were so serious that they were reported to the police.

We have been raising the issue in the Parliament for years, because the problem has been on the rise for years. Something has to change. My question is, therefore, what will change and when will it change?

Jamie Greene will recognise that I take a keen interest in the matter, given my professional experience before I was an MSP.

As I think I mentioned in my initial response, the issue was raised at both teacher conferences that were held over the weekend.

Fundamentally, we need first to recognise that Covid has changed the culture in schools. It is changing relationships, behaviour and things including attendance. We need to be cognisant of the broader changes that are happening in our school communities, and we need to support our school staff better in responding to such incidents when they are extreme.

Secondly, we also need to provide context. In my experience as a teacher, examples such as Jamie Greene cited were few. Yes, they happen—but they are not the norm in terms of behaviour in schools. We need to be careful about how we politicians characterise behaviour in our schools, because we do not want to send a message that is indifferent to the daily reality in our classrooms up and down the country, which is that teachers are equipped with the necessary skills and expertise to defuse challenging situations as and when they happen.

Thirdly, when we talk about specific incidents, we should be mindful that we are talking about the impacts not only on staff but on our children and young people. As a former teacher, I always think about that when it comes to responding to incidents.

We politicians must be careful not to use specific examples to form policy. That is why, in my initial response to Jamie Greene, I talked about the national evidence base. That evidence was last gathered in 2016 and has not, as a result of the pandemic, been updated. A number of weeks ago, I asked for an update on it, but I will not be able to access the data until the autumn. At that time, I will share with the Parliament the updated national picture on behaviour in our schools.

I say with respect to the cabinet secretary that the problem with that response is that 75,000 is not a “few” incidents. The incident that I mentioned is not unique or isolated. Such incidents are in the tens of thousands.

If the cabinet secretary does not believe me, she should listen to the Educational Institute of Scotland, which represents a body of teachers. Its former president, Heather Hughes, said:

“Violent incidents are happening more and more in our schools because the young people and teachers are not getting the support they need”.

It is nothing whatsoever to do with Covid. Heather Hughes said that a year ago.

The reality is that teachers are at their wits’ end. They should not be afraid to go to work in the morning. I agree that other pupils and young people have to bear the brunt, in disruption to their learning and their wider school experience.

I am afraid to say that the cabinet secretary is just one of many education ministers who has promised action on the matter. To say that it is just a matter for individual schools or councils simply does not wash any more; it is a national problem, which requires a national solution. When, therefore, will there be a comprehensive plan from the Government to deal with the rising violence in our schools?

Jamie Greene cited evidence from the EIS. Of course, I am a former member of the EIS, so I recognise its views on the subject and have already spoken to it on the matter. If Jamie Greene had listened to any of the interviews that I have given or to my comments on the culture in our schools, he would know that the issue is at the forefront of my mind in respect of recognising how the Government can respond.

However, my point to Jamie Greene is that local authorities have a statutory responsibility to deliver education in our schools at local level; therefore, they, too, have responsibility in responding to extreme events. When extreme events occur in our schools—I accept that they occur, although they are not the norm, in my experience—it is important that local authorities support their staff and their young people in responding to them. I am working with COSLA on that. In my initial response, I outlined the action that I am taking with COSLA, in relation to SAGRABIS and in relation to the behaviour in Scottish schools—[

Interruption

.]

Stephen Kerr is heckling from a sedentary position. I have to say that he probably would not have been able to do that in my classroom. Nonetheless, I have outlined my plan—[

Interruption

.]

I was going to go on to talk about promoting positive behaviour, so I look to the Conservative members in hope and with encouragement that they, too, respond to that call.

More seriously however, I say that there is a request and a call to action to the Government, but there is also the point that I made to the teaching unions at the weekend about the call to the teaching workforce to tell me what they think will work in our schools. I do not—neither as cabinet secretary nor as a former teacher—claim to have all the answers on that. The teaching workforce knows exactly what it needs in terms of the support and guidance that we provide for teachers in schools. We can provide some of that at the national level but, actually, our local authority partners will be key to tackling the issue.

It is right that the local authorities have responsibility in the matter, but interpretation of what is a violent incident varies across Scotland. That means that bringing together statistics will be almost impossible; that responsibility surely rests with the Government.

The Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999 state that employers must carry out risk assessments

“to protect employees from exposure to reasonably foreseeable violence.”

What discussions has the cabinet secretary had with local authorities about improving violent risk assessments so that she can compare like with like, and what discussions has she had about providing resources to support mental health provision for students, given that mental health challenges lie at the base of a significant number of the conflicts that occur in schools?

As I said in my response to Mr Greene, I have already met COSLA to talk about its role in the matter. I met COSLA most recently last week, as part of the Scottish advisory group on relationships and behaviour in schools. It co-chairs that group with the Government and I have asked the group to come back with recommendations on the action that we can take.

The data that I mentioned in my response to Mr Greene will not be forthcoming until the autumn. That, unfortunately, is because of the datasets that our researchers have used. I accept the need for the Government to act, but the Government needs to act in partnership with our local authorities. Therefore, more broadly, the member’s point is an important one.

Martin Whitfield has made important points about mental health and support for our young people: there is an issue, there. We have, of course, provided funding in the region of £16 million to provide secondary schools with access to counselling services. However, the solution is not just about having specialists in our schools; it is also about our classroom teachers and it is about our learning assistants and behaviour support assistants, who are often paid much less than our classroom teachers. We need to recognise that the situation requires whole-school and whole-community responses. Yes—that includes Government, but as the member said, it also includes our local authority partners. That is why I am really keen to take the work forward with COSLA and our trade unions.

I hope that the cabinet secretary has the matter at the top of her priorities list, because teachers and pupils are sick to the back teeth of how they are being treated in our schools. It is a huge problem that is causing massive issues for management of our schools.

However, my real concerns are that the previous cabinet secretary did not attend the advisory group back in December and that the survey that the current cabinet secretary has talked about will not be available until the autumn. I fear that the Government is not moving fast enough. There has been a mushrooming of cases since the pandemic. There has been a problem in respect of mental health, through lack of resources or additional support. Those issues should be at the top of her list. What can she say to reassure me that she fully understands the problem that exists in schools?

Mr Rennie really does not need to tell me what teachers think. I spend most of my time, if I am not speaking to my political colleagues, speaking to my former friends and colleagues who work in education. They tell me very clearly exactly what they think, so I very much recognise the challenge.

As I said in my response to Mr Greene, there is wider national work going on, which is really important. Mr Rennie previously—at an episode of First Minister’s question time, I think—raised a specific case from his constituency. We, as politicians, need to be careful to look not at the specifics but at the national picture and what it is telling us. We do not yet—[

Interruption

.] We do not have that data because it has not been gathered since 2016. I want to look at it in more detail.

My second point is that the SAGRABIS work is really fundamental to the endeavour. The group will work with COSLA and with our trade union partners. On Friday and Saturday, I got real encouragement from our trade union partners that they are part of the solution in respect of identifying how we can better support our schools. I hope that that gives Mr Rennie reassurance.

I have spent much of my time as cabinet secretary over the past six weeks looking at the issue and trying to get the granular information that we do not yet have. However, as I said, it is important that we do not necessarily look just at the specifics of the extreme cases but instead that we look to support our local authority partners on the ground and, fundamentally, that we help to support those who work with our children and young people. They include teaching staff, but they also include learning support assistants and behaviour assistants.

The Presiding Officer:

That concludes topical question time.