1. Last night, the Scottish Conservatives led a debate and vote here in Parliament on Scottish National Party-Green plans to introduce highly protected marine areas. Those reckless proposals would ban fishing in large parts of Scotland’s seas. They would risk thousands of jobs. They would be devastating to coastal communities. The First Minister has said that his Government will not impose highly protected marine areas on any community that is vehemently opposed to them. So, quite simply, can he define what he means in this case by “community” and say what level of opposition will be considered vehement?

Before I respond to Douglas Ross, I want to recognise that today is international firefighters day. I take this opportunity to thank firefighters across Scotland for their selfless contribution to keeping us safe, and I pay tribute to those firefighters who have lost their lives serving our communities, including Barry Martin—I know that his bravery will serve as a constant and continual reminder of the courage that our firefighters demonstrate in the line of duty each and every day.

On the important question that Douglas Ross raises, let me just remind him that it was also a Scottish Conservative manifesto pledge to introduce highly protected marine areas. In fact, Douglas Ross stood on not one but two manifestos that pledged to introduce highly protected marine areas in some shape or form.

I had the misfortune of hearing Rachael Hamilton’s interview on “Good Morning Scotland” a couple of days ago, in which she set out, I think, four different positions on HPMAs in around five minutes. What we have made absolutely clear is that this Government will not impose HPMAs on any community that vehemently opposes them.

We have done the consultation and we have had an enormous response to it—[

Interruption

.]

If I could have a moment, First Minister, I would like to say that I would be grateful if, when a member is speaking, other members were listening.

The First Minister:

Thank you, Presiding Officer.

We have done the consultation and there has been a significant response. It is only right that we now analyse those responses. Of course, Màiri McAllan and I have committed to making sure that we engage with our coastal and island communities that may well be affected by HPMAs.

With regard to what consent mechanism we will use and how we will define “community” in terms of opposition or consent, that is something on which we will engage directly with the community. That is why we have done a consultation at early inception stage. It would be completely wrong of us to pre-empt a decision about what consent mechanism we will end up putting in place or to set the parameters here today, because, of course, that would risk excluding some voices that should be heard.

We will not apologise for taking the necessary action that we need to in order to protect our biodiversity. It is incumbent not only on the Government of the day but on all of us to ensure that we tackle the twin crises of the climate emergency and the loss of our biodiversity.

I begin by associating myself with the remarks of the First Minister on international firefighters day. My colleague Russell Findlay will speak in the members’ business debate on that very issue, which will take place immediately after First Minister’s question time. We all celebrate and recognise the bravery of our firefighters, who do tremendous work day in, day out, putting their lives at risk, which we saw so starkly with the sad loss of Barry Martin earlier this year.

The First Minister’s answer was long in length but short on detail. What would be completely wrong is to give reassurances to coastal communities that everything is fine because, if they are a community that is vehemently opposed to an HPMA, the HPMA will not be introduced, but then be completely unable to define what a community is. The First Minister is trying to give reassurances with no substance behind them.

Speaking about behind, the First Minister just needs to look behind him to Karen Adam, who said in Parliament two days ago:

“we need clarity on how those communities will be defined and how we will gauge their vehement opposition.—[

Official Report

, 2 May 2023; c 78.]

We do. I am saying that and even the SNP members are saying it. However, it is already crystal clear that those communities are vehemently opposed to the plans. The First Minister should just listen to what they are saying.

The Scottish Fishermen’s Federation said that the plans could have a “catastrophic” effect. A fisherman from the Outer Hebrides said that it will be

“absolutely devastating and you’ll see a loss of population in these areas akin to the Highland Clearances”.

The Tiree Community Development Trust said:

“It will be the end of our community.”

A development trust said that the SNP-Green plans will be

“the end of our community.”

Those are damning verdicts on the SNP Government’s proposals from the people who know the sector best. Therefore, why is the First Minister pressing ahead with a policy that will devastate coastal, rural and fishing communities?

The First Minister:

I remind Douglas Ross of the commitment in the Scottish Conservatives’ manifesto n ot that many years ago. It said:

“We will review the current Marine Protected Areas in Scottish waters, with a view to expanding their extent, and pilot the introduction of Highly Protected Marine Areas.”

The Conservatives are now saying that they are for pilots. Rachael Hamilton gave a very different articulation on the radio a few days ago.

[Interruption.]

The Presiding Officer:

Thank you, members.

The First Minister:

We know that Douglas Ross is known for flip-flopping all over the place on any issue of the day. He is flip-flopping on the issue of highly protected marine areas.

Karen Adam was absolutely right, of course. We will not only define communities; we will define what consent or what opposition is. What I am saying to Douglas Ross very clearly is that we should analyse the huge number of consultation responses that we have had from those communities before we decide for them or impose on them or, indeed, exclude any of those communities from the discussion.

What we should all absolutely agree on is the fact that we have to take action to ensure that our marine environment is sustainable for the future. It will not help our fishing communities if that marine environment is not sustainable. We want to ensure that it is so that the future of our fishing industry can continue for many years. I am committed to doing that not to the communities involved but, I hope, with the communities involved. [

Applause

.]

There is muted applause from behind the First Minister. If only he could see the glum faces of SNP members—it is incredible.

It is not only coastal, fishing and rural communities—which the First Minister is seemingly happy to ignore—that are against the plans. Last night, in the chamber, three senior SNP MSPs—all former Government ministers—voted against their party on the fishing ban. Let us listen to what they had to say.

Fergus Ewing said:

“this issue will haunt the Scottish Government.”

Alasdair Allan said:

“I have never known my constituency to be ... so unanimously opposed to any single policy ... in all my time” as an MSP. Kate Forbes said:

“if the proposals go ahead as planned, the rarest species in our coastal areas and islands will soon be people.”—[

Official Report

, 2 May 2023; c 86, 81, 92.]

Does Humza Yousaf realise that not only is he out of touch with coastal communities, he is out of touch with members of his own party?

The First Minister:

Again, I remind Douglas Ross of the fact that the Parliament accepted an amended motion by a majority. Of course, we, too, accepted and voted for amendments from the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats. A number of parties came together to propose amendments, which we accepted, and the majority of members agreed to the motion.

I say to Douglas Ross that there are good examples of where we have a no-take zone, including Lamlash Bay. The community campaigned for that. [

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer:

Thank you, members.

The First Minister:

The community wanted that in its local area. Based on the studies that have been co-ordinated by the community group, we have seen that, since that protection was put in place, commercially important species such as the king scallop and the European lobster have increased in size, age and density. That is a good example of where we have worked with a community in order for a no-take zone to be implemented.

We are not talking about imposition; we are talking about working with communities throughout the country. That is the right thing to do.

The trouble with the Conservatives is that they demand that we take action on the climate emergency and that we take action to reverse some of the negative impacts and effects of the loss of biodiversity but, whenever we propose action, they oppose it every single step of the way. That is not going to help our climate, and it certainly is not going to help our fishing industry or our marine environment in the future. [

Applause

.]

Gosh, it is getting worse. If I had another question, there might be no response from his own party to an answer from the First Minister. [

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer:

Quiet, please. Thank you.

Humza Yousaf was speaking about the response from the Scottish Conservatives. He should be worried about the response from his own back benchers and the rebellion that we have already seen. It took Nicola Sturgeon eight years to have her first major rebellion within the SNP ranks; it has taken Humza Yousaf less than eight weeks to achieve the same. He is clearly losing his grip on his party because he insists on pursuing these extreme policies, which are opposed by the very communities he wants to impose them on.

These reckless plans would ban fishing across much of our sea. They would put thousands of jobs at risk and devastate coastal, rural and fishing areas. Coastal communities, the fishing sector and even Humza Yousaf’s own MSPs have all called for the SNP Government to ditch its anti-fishing plans, yet the First Minister is ploughing ahead with them regardless. Instead of arrogantly dismissing the many valid concerns, as he has done so far, will he now do the right thing and scrap the plans?

The First Minister:

What we are doing—and what we have done from the very beginning of this process—is engage with our coastal and island communities. In total, we have had over 40 meetings with stakeholders and I have already stated that the cabinet secretary will continue that engagement.

For example, prior to the consultation even being launched, there were meetings with over 20 stakeholder groups, including some of those that Douglas Ross has mentioned, such as the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation, the Scottish Creel Fishermen’s Federation, aquaculture groups such as Salmon Scotland, important environmental non-governmental organisations such as Scottish Environment LINK and community representatives such as the Coastal Communities Network and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities—[

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer:

I appreciate that members are here because they have strong opinions on many issues, but I would be grateful if they could keep those opinions to themselves while other members are on their feet.

The First Minister:

They are not willing to hear the facts and that is the problem, Presiding Officer, because the facts are that we have engaged, even prior to the consultation.

I have given an absolute commitment that we will continue to engage and I have given a commitment, time and time again, in public, that we will not impose HPMAs on any community that is vehemently opposed to them. For Douglas Ross to stand there and talk about losing grip of a party when he has been leader—[

Interruption

.] The Conservatives have had the longest attempted coup in Scottish political history. Why does Jamie Greene or Liam Kerr not just stand up and put Douglas Ross out of his misery? [

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer:

Members!

The First Minister:

It is hardly a surprise that Douglas Ross talks about losing grip on a political party. Even he has lost faith in his own political party: he spent the entire Easter recess urging his supporters to vote for the Scottish Labour Party, Presiding Officer.

Finally, Douglas Ross has got his finger on the pulse—[

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer:

Members—quiet, please. Thank you.

The First Minister:

Douglas Ross has finally caught up with Scottish public opinion. Even Douglas Ross has lost faith in his own leadership of the Scottish Conservative Party.