Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3

Part of the debate – in the Scottish Parliament at on 24 January 2023.

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Photo of Edward Mountain Edward Mountain Conservative

I remind the Parliament that I have an interest, in that I own and manage land and have been involved in wildlife management for more than 40 years.

I thank the minister for listening to some of the debates around the bill. I know that, in some of those, she has struggled to find a solution to some of the problems that she feels as a matter of conscience. However, her amendments are refreshing, because they take into account what is, after all, the good practice that is practised on the land by most people who are using dogs underground.

I am disappointed with Ariane Burgess’s amendment, because she seems to seek to defend it by suggesting that it will stop dog fighting and badger baiting. There is never any excuse for dog fighting, and never any excuse for badger baiting. The badger is one of the most protected animals in the United Kingdom and the offences for interfering with or causing injury to badgers are probably some of the most stringent offences that someone can be charged with. I therefore do not find those arguments compelling, or a reason to stop the use of dogs underground.

Those people who work in the countryside know that, when a fox gets a taste for lambs, it becomes a very difficult animal to control. Often, as we heard during the committee debate from Jim Fairlie, older foxes with fewer teeth become more susceptible to predation on lambs. If members have seen a few lambs with their back passages eaten out, tongues chewed out, or soft underbellies ripped apart while they are still alive, they will know why foxes need to be controlled. Therefore, controlling them underground, by using dogs to flush them from under the ground to be shot, is entirely appropriate and is necessary across the farming community.

Colin Smyth’s amendment 54 does not need supporting, because, as the minister has pointed out, that is what people are attempting to do when they flush a fox from underground: to shoot and kill it.

I support Rachael Hamilton’s amendments 55 and 58 because they are good practice.

I am concerned that, if members decide to support Ariane Burgess’s amendments to remove section 5, we will make a problem for ourselves that will prevent us not only from looking after domestic livestock but from looking after the flora and fauna of Scotland.