Baroness Cumberlege Report

Part of the debate – in the Scottish Parliament at on 8 September 2020.

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Photo of Jackson Carlaw Jackson Carlaw Conservative

This is the first closing speech in Parliament that I have given for several years; I have been detained in other ways. I am absolutely delighted to be able to contribute to a debate as outstanding and informed as the one that we have had this afternoon.

Most of the content that I want to address relates to the mesh scandal and the way that it has unfolded, but first I want to thank Kenny Gibson, to whom I must apologise—his lectern was up earlier, and I was not sure whose it was; I asked Brian Whittle whether Christine Grahame was sitting there, which might be the first time that that mistake has been made. I want to thank Kenny Gibson, as well as Joan McAlpine and Willie Coffey, for bringing in the issues relating to sodium valproate and Primodos, which is an issue that Theresa May has also focused on at Westminster. All the health scandals that are summed up in the work of Baroness Cumberlege deserve attention. I am so pleased that the Government is taking forward the recommendations that have been made.

On 25 November last year, the First Minister met with many of the mesh women. It is true that that was during a general election, although it is a little uncharitable to suggest that there was a connection. That meeting was in response to a request that I made at First Minister’s questions—as I recall, the original date was postponed due to a bereavement in the First Minister’s family. She also met a second group of women in Edinburgh. The First Minister heard first hand the powerful testimonies that members of this chamber have heard when meeting those women over a great many years.

Five years before that, as we have heard, Elaine Holmes and Olive McIlroy launched their petition in the Parliament. Several years earlier, in 2007, mesh procedures first began in the NHS. One could point out that Nicola Sturgeon was health secretary then, but that is coincidence rather than a consequence. Therefore, over three sessions of Parliament, we have gone from the implementation of mesh implants to hearing what the consequences of mesh implants have been and going through a series of investigations and reports on what we would do about the issue. Now—months away from a fourth parliamentary session—we must ensure that we finally resolve and draw a line under the suffering of the women who have been subject to mesh implants.

Recommendation 6 is on the MHRA. Angus MacDonald might be the only surviving member of the Public Petitions Committee from that time—I apologise if there are others—who heard the appalling testimony of the MHRA’s representative. In front of a room full of mesh-suffering women, he told the committee that the approvals process had been a two-week desktop study by three students at a cost of £20,000 and that, as far as he was concerned, maybe a handful of women had been adversely affected—never mind the rows of women who were sitting behind him as he spoke.

If any service is unfit for purpose, it is the MHRA. Medicines regulation is a reserved function at Westminster, but that is not an issue of contention. If a motion on the issue ever came before the Scottish Parliament, all parties would be united in saying that the position must be addressed and completely changed.

It was after that meeting that we found out that some of the people in the MHRA had direct links to the industries that were producing the mesh product—links that had gone undeclared and from which they were profiting. That is completely unacceptable and it is why the MHRA requires to be the subject of major change and review. We will support the cabinet secretary in arguing for that to take place.

Many people have talked about the way in which the women’s voices have been dismissed and about the way that they were treated. Those of us who sit on the cross-party group on chronic pain know that that goes on today. Men are asked, “Did you play football when you were younger, son? Did you have an accident at work? Were you in the armed forces, or were you a fighter in your youth?” Women are asked, “Are you feeling a bit under the weather with all that you’re having to do? Can we give you some antidepressants and see if that helps?” There is a ridiculous inequality in the way that women are treated in the health service. If people stand up and say that they are suffering unbelievable chronic pain and are unable to carry on with their normal lives, it is because they probably are. The symptom should be taken seriously and addressed.

In a Public Petitions Committee meeting, I and others sat in a room in which we saw men in grey suits argue to the women who were sitting at the back of the room that it was all in their heads, that they really were not suffering at all and that, if they could speak to somebody about it, they would probably get over it all and all would be well. They were not people whom we might meet in the street; they were the clinicians who had been implementing the mesh and who were in complete denial that there was any adverse consequence.

I remember when Elaine Holmes walked through the door of my constituency office, trembling at the thought of having to discuss with a man something that was unbelievably intimate. It is because of her courage that I have been happy to work on the issue across parties for the past three sessions. It has become an issue that I have become more passionate about than anything else, and I am determined to see justice achieved.

We should remember that much of the progress that has been made is about preventing this from happening again. That was the objective of the women concerned. They did not really think that mesh removal was an option—just think about the way in which tissue grows around mesh and the extraordinary difficulty, if not excruciating pain, of trying to remove it. However, we have moved from that to a point at which mesh removal is now an option.

That is what underpins my amendment. Like Alex Neil, I do not necessarily want to get into the whys and wherefores of what Dr Veronikis may or may not do or what he might have said about coming here. A finite number of women are involved. We may still have to quantify how many there are but, if no further mesh is being implemented, the number is quantifiable. I want those women to know that, if it comes to the bit, they can go to the United States and to Dr Veronikis, and they can have the mesh removed, fully funded by the NHS.

Two of my constituents—Elaine Holmes, at a cost of some £20,000, and Lorna Farrell—have done that. Members can watch Lorna Farrell on YouTube. Having had the mesh removed, she went to the bottom of the steps in Philadelphia that Rocky Balboa ran up. With her crutches and out of her wheelchair for the first time in years—to be honest, I think that she took on more than she realised—she struggled up to the top of those steps and turned in triumph, having got some control back over her life. Whether it is there or through the other processes that the First Minister and the health secretary are seeking to achieve, I want that to be an option that is open to all the women who have given so much of their own lives to fight for the cause, so that they have hope for the future.

Some members have been quite kind about Neil Findlay, Alex Neil and me this afternoon. We met earlier today and we solved all the problems of the world so, if the Government falls, we stand ready to serve, and we are flattered by members’ confidence.

However, many other people have been involved. Marion Scott, who is an investigative journalist, has been mentioned. She has been an absolutely tireless emotional support to the women. Mandy Rhodes and the

Holyrood magazine team have been hard working on the issue as well. Wael Agur has enjoyed the confidence of the women throughout, and of course I acknowledge the work of Elaine Holmes, Olive McIlroy and other women who have tirelessly campaigned on the issue over three sessions of Parliament.

Two of the meshketeers have indicated that they will not be returning to the Parliament for a fourth session’s work on the issue. I can only say that if the electorate is kind enough to return me, I will work with Rona Mackay and others who have become real champions of the issue over the past few years to ensure that the resolutions that we make today and the recommendations that we implement finally draw a line under the mesh scandal, and that we give all those women the justice that they deserve.