Social Security Scotland (First Anniversary)

– in the Scottish Parliament at on 19 September 2019.

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Photo of Kenneth Macintosh Kenneth Macintosh Labour

The next item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S5M-18758, in the name of Shona Robison, on Social Security Scotland’s first anniversary. The debate will be concluded without any question being put.

Motion debated,

That the Parliament notes that it has been one year since Social Security Scotland was established, employing around 400 people with its headquarters in Dundee; commends the aim of the new agency to ensure that the service is based on dignity and respect; is encouraged by research published in June 2019, which it understands showed high satisfaction levels with the service provided by Social Security Scotland; considers that thousands of people are already benefiting from the increased financial support that has been delivered, including the Carer’s Allowance Supplement and the three elements of the Best Start Grant; believes that, by removing barriers to application and promoting the take-up of benefits, more low-income households have received much-needed support; welcomes that nearly £13 million has already been paid out through Best Start Grants, and welcomes that the agency will also deliver the new Scottish Child Payment, which it understands has been described as a “game-changer” by antipoverty campaigners.

Photo of Shona Robison Shona Robison Scottish National Party

It is a privilege to bring this debate to Parliament. I thank my colleagues from across the parties who have supported the motion, giving us the opportunity to mark

Social Security Scotland’s first anniversary. I look forward to listening to their speeches and I hope that they will help to shape the future of social security in Scotland, as they helped to shape its beginning.

It was a proud moment for me when the Parliament passed the Social Security (Scotland) Bill—it was a proud moment for all of us who want to see a fairer, more respectful and more dignified Scotland. Great credit must go to all those who campaigned, many of them for many years, for control over our welfare policy. This is indeed a good start.

Across the United Kingdom, Scotland is showing the way forward, implementing a system that is based on the principle that social security is a fundamental human right. That principle has helped to shape the new body and its charter.

At the inception of Social Security Scotland, the people of Scotland were asked how the social security powers should be used. The message that came back was that the UK system is stressful, complicated, impersonal and even inhumane. We were determined to do things differently, to deliver benefits in a humane, personal and positive way and to see social security as a fundamental human right. We asked people from many different backgrounds to shape our principles and to share their experiences in order to help us build a system with them at the centre. From that, the charter was formed. The charter states that:

“social security is an investment in the people of Scotland ... social security is itself a human right and essential to the realisation of other human rights” and

“respect for the dignity of individuals is to be at the heart of the Scottish social security system”.

Since its establishment, the agency has headquartered in Dundee—which of course makes me extremely happy—bringing more than 700 well-paid and highly valued jobs to Dundee in challenging economic times for the city. Those jobs are very welcome indeed. There are a further 750 jobs at its base in Glasgow, and a further 400 jobs are located in communities across Scotland, with people delivering face-to-face support to those who need it.

The agency’s first year has been a success. Audit Scotland’s recent review found that the Scottish Government has delivered on the commitments that it made for the first year: establishing a new agency that paid the first Scottish benefits; developing a social security charter; forming the Scottish Commission on Social Security; undertaking important groundwork to support the delivery of future benefits; embedding new ways of working; supporting the phased delivery of the benefits; and reflecting the principles of fairness, dignity and respect.

The report also says that many challenges are still to be faced as more powers come to Scotland. We do not doubt that those challenges will come, but we do not fear them. We see them as an opportunity to build a fairer future for all. We will build on what we have already done. Only yesterday, the Government announced the job start payment, which will support young people in a new job after a period of unemployment. That comes on top of the carers allowance supplement, which has helped more than 77,000 people so far by providing payments totalling £35 million in addition to the £157 million in carers allowance payments; the 9,700 families who are supported through best start grants; and the Scottish child payment, which will lift 30,000 Scottish children out of poverty and has been described as a “game changer” by anti-poverty campaigners.

We see what has been done; we see what can be done; and we see what needs to be done. Let us not forget the words of the United Nations special rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights, who said:

“Even while devolved authorities in Scotland ... are frantically trying to devise ways to ‘mitigate’ ... the worst features of the Government’s benefits policy”, the UK Government’s

“compassion for those who are suffering has been replaced by a punitive, mean-spirited, and often callous approach” to welfare. He went on to say that Scotland has used new powers to establish a “promising social security system”. We have made a promising start, but I know that we can do so much more.

I echo the calls of the Cabinet Secretary for Social Security and Older People, Shirley-Anne Somerville, for all social security to be devolved to Scotland. I think that we have shown what we can do with those powers. What we want is to have the rest of the powers, so that we can support our people even more. We can create a system with the people of Scotland for the people of Scotland.

The UN letter declares that poverty is a political choice. Well, let us not choose poverty; let us choose to end poverty. Let us choose a system with the people of Scotland, for the people of Scotland.

I look forward to members’ speeches.

Photo of Michelle Ballantyne Michelle Ballantyne Conservative

It gives me great pleasure to speak in this debate, and I thank Shona Robison for bringing it to the chamber.

Marking the first anniversary of Social Security Scotland today is important, because it is not often in the chamber that we find such consensus around an issue, particularly in recent weeks. However, I think that we can all remember the infectious optimism that was evident in Holyrood that April afternoon when, unanimously, we passed the bill that enabled the creation of the agency. It was the culmination of the largest devolution settlement since this Parliament opened. The Social Security (Scotland) Act 2018 presented the Parliament with the opportunity to create something dynamic, exciting and new.

As we have heard from Shona Robison—and as we will no doubt hear from the cabinet secretary later—David Wallace and the team at Social Security Scotland have done well to adapt to the challenges that they have been presented with practically and at a policy level. When I visited the agency’s offices in Dundee, as I have done on a couple of occasions, I was impressed by the enthusiasm with which the staff described their roles as well as their desire to build a compassionate system that is tailored to Scotland’s needs. I cannot fault them for the work that they have done and will carry on doing. Today, I add my thanks for all that they are doing to ensure the smooth delivery of the devolved benefits and the new ones that are being created.

That said, it would be foolish to rest on any laurels just yet. What has been accomplished already is an achievement, but a sense of perspective is required. The benefits that have been delivered by Social Security Scotland to date are just the tip of an iceberg and it is of some concern that we are already seeing delays.

In June, the cabinet secretary announced a whole series of postponements. I am glad that the funeral expense assistance that was promised in the summer has now arrived—albeit a month late—but the former Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, Amber Rudd, warned of an impending cliff edge for disability benefits if the Scottish Government does not keep to its timetable. That could potentially affect thousands of Scots each month after the Department for Work and Pensions assessment contracts expire in 2021.

The importance of that date cannot be overstated. With no mechanisms in place to provide disability assessments, there is a serious risk that the Scottish Government could be forced to guess eligibility or, worse, that people may not receive the benefits that they are entitled to. The decision to bring forward the first instalments of the Scottish child payment threatens to disrupt those essential benefits. Although I welcome the Scottish Government’s intention with that policy, I hope that it takes the greatest care to ensure that its decision does not affect the disability benefits that we absolutely need to deliver.

Photo of George Adam George Adam Scottish National Party

I take on board Michelle Ballantyne’s attitude to disability benefits, but is that not hypocrisy from her, as her Government in London has attacked the disabled community? It is an absolute disgrace for Michelle Ballantyne to come here and state that.

Photo of Michelle Ballantyne Michelle Ballantyne Conservative

It is very sad that George Adam has suggested that it is a disgrace to be concerned that people who are entitled to disability benefits may not get them if the deadlines are not met. I do not see that as hypocrisy in any way. George Adam is trying to make an inappropriate political attack.

There are real concerns, and there is a problem if he is not able to take that on board. I think that the cabinet secretary has taken that on board and that she is working very hard to ensure that there is no cliff edge and that we do not miss making the payments. It is legitimate to express concerns in the Parliament.

There are also a number of operational concerns that need to be addressed. At a Public Audit and Post-legislative Scrutiny Committee meeting earlier this month, members raised concerns about the programme in relation to budgeting, staffing and capacity. Again, those are legitimate concerns, and I am sure that the cabinet secretary is working hard to ensure that they are addressed. For example, the senior Scottish Government official involved in the new social security system was unable to provide the committee with even a ballpark figure on how the Scottish child payment will affect the programme’s long-term financial planning.

There was also confusion about whether the programme would stick to its own timetable. The relevant Scottish Government director told the committee:

“We are still working through the process to understand whether we can hold to the dates that the cabinet secretary shared”.—[

Official Report, Public Audit and Post-legislative Scrutiny Committee

, 5 September 2019; c 6.]

Given the concerns about disability payments, I sincerely hope that that work is completed swiftly and that we are not faced with an autumn statement from the cabinet secretary that details fresh delays to benefits that are already late. I would have thought that George Adam, too, would want to ensure that that work is done swiftly.

I hope that the cabinet secretary will give us some information about what is to happen with the ending of the lease of Dundee house. I understand that alternative premises are yet to be identified. Given that wave 2 benefits are coming, I hope that we will hear soon where the social security agency will be located. Obviously, it will be faced with quite a lot of work given that new benefits are coming and that it will have to move. I hope that we will hear some information about that.

I am absolutely behind the cabinet secretary in that I want her to get those things right. However, it is legitimate for us to raise concerns.

Photo of Jenny Marra Jenny Marra Labour

I thank Shona Robison for bringing the debate to the chamber. Given the scale of Social Security Scotland’s work, any time that we can devote to debating it is to be welcomed.

On Monday, I had the great pleasure of visiting Funeral Link, on Albert Street in Dundee. That is a recent initiative to address locally concerns about funeral poverty. It provides advice for people on ways in which they can cut down the costs of a funeral and still give their loved ones a dignified funeral and send-off. I ask the cabinet secretary to note that although the Scottish funeral payment started this week, that project, which is doing very good work, already faces funding challenges. I would be very grateful if she would look at that.

As Shona Robison said, Audit Scotland’s recent report was very helpful. It is important that the huge transfer of powers and public investment be monitored closely in order to ensure that it is done in the most efficient way. The Auditor General for Scotland highlighted some issues relating to the efficiency of information technology projects—I am sure that the cabinet secretary has studied the report—so it is very important that Parliament continue to scrutinise the new agency, how it is being set up and its efficiency in use of public funds.

As Shona Robison said, Social Security Scotland is headquartered in Dundee. I understand that of the 750 jobs that were promised, 250 people are already employed.

The new agency has, of course, had its successes. The new benefits that have been delivered, and the ones that are planned, will be a welcome boost to struggling families. Delivering them properly might allow us to finally start to cut into Scotland’s appalling and shameful poverty figures, which are particularly evident in Dundee.

However, like all agencies, Social Security Scotland has had its teething problems. Delivery of the Government’s new Scottish child payment has raised concerns due to fears that uptake of benefits will be impacted by use of an application-based process rather than an automatic payment process. That will require more form filling for applicants who have already been through the universal credit process, and it will create more work for agency staff, despite the then Minister for Social Security, Jeane Freeman, having demanded a simpler and more streamlined approach to benefits applications than the approach that is taken by the Westminster Government.

The decision to delay devolution of a host of benefits means that we have not yet been able to maximise the full potential of that process, and it has left thousands of Scots still dealing with the Department for Work and Pensions. I hope, therefore, that the cabinet secretary has delayed the process in the interests of an efficient and effective transfer of powers.

Like Michelle Ballantyne, I note the lack of a permanent base for the agency’s headquarters. It is important for the agency to have permanent headquarters. It is currently housed in Dundee City Council’s headquarters, which is called Dundee house, on an 18-month lease, but that lease will soon come to an end. When, at last week’s meeting of the Public Audit and Post-legislative Scrutiny Committee, I asked the chief executive when the lease will end, he said that he was not sure.

Dundee City Council is in the process of selling the building in which it has its headquarters to a Canadian insurance company—Canada Life UK, I believe—and will then lease it back. I do not know whether negotiations in that process are taking place but, as Michelle Ballantyne said, it is incumbent on the cabinet secretary to indicate when there will be a permanent base. Will the agency be moving out of Dundee house soon? There is a lot of empty office space in Dundee—whole buildings are empty, and although they might require a bit of refurbishment, they could certainly hold 750 staff. It is important for the future of the agency and for its ability to plan its service delivery that it gets clarity on where the headquarters will be.

Photo of Bob Doris Bob Doris Scottish National Party

As others have done, I thank Shona Robison for bringing the debate to Parliament. I also thank the team at Social Security Scotland: the public-facing side of the operation—the front line—and those behind the scenes who make a substantial effort in developing IT systems and the structures that underpin the entire Social Security Scotland network.

Another key “Thank you” must go to the people who have lived experience of the benefits system, who have been key and have been at the heart of developing, implementing and rolling out a variety of benefits, through experience panels and other extensive consultation. Lived experience is crucial, as are the key principles of how Social Security Scotland should conduct its business, as outlined in the social security charter, which people who have lived experience helped to create.

Social Security Scotland has sought—as it should—to build a strong and positive relationship with claimants and potential claimants on the bases of dignity, respect and trust. The new Scottish social security system is already, in its infancy, making a significant difference to the lives of many of my constituents.

The carers allowance supplement will put an extra £452 into the hands of 83,000 carers each and every year, going forward. Many of them will be constituents of mine. The best start grant includes a number of payments, from the pregnancy and baby payment to the early learning payment to the school-age payment, which have been rolled out incrementally over the past year. Some 42,000 payments have already been made to 10,000 low-income families, and £13 million has been paid out, to date. That will have benefited many of my constituents in Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn, and many others. It is a more generous contribution than the previous UK benefit: people in Scotland with two children receive £1,900, which is £1,400 than if they would receive if they stayed elsewhere in the UK. That is a substantial contribution.

As we have heard, this week saw the launch of the funeral assistance grant which is, on average, £1,300. There is no set amount. That will contribute to costs for people on low incomes at a distressing time when, as Jenny Marra outlined, they should not have to worry about money. The grant will make a significant contribution to their giving loved ones a fitting service. The grants are being promoted on social media, and I note that people can fill out paper applications or do online applications, and that there is a telephone helpline. The idea that application is not digital by default is an important principle.

I also very much welcome the expected job start payments. Up to £400 for young long-term unemployed people will be paid from around spring next year.

There is a lot to welcome, and it all builds up trust. I have not even mentioned the child payments. It is right that low-income households are seeing delivery of the child payments of £10 per week being accelerated, such that the first delivery for under-six-year-olds will be in 2021.

That brings us to disability assistance, which has been mentioned by a few members. The key thing for me—I have sought assurances on this from the First Minister at a Conveners’ Group meeting on the programme for government—is the commitment to make sure that those who will undergo a new personal independence payment assessment by the end of this session of Parliament will do so under the new Scottish disability assistance and not under the flawed, dreadful and punitive UK system. That reassurance has been consistently given. Of course, it is a challenge and we will have to scrutinise that, but let us do it in a supportive and constructive way for the better Scottish social security system that we all want.

My constituents would want me to finish by saying that this is money that they are entitled to and that there should be sufficient funds to deliver it. My goodness! How much more we could do if every social security benefit was devolved to the Scottish Parliament—not least the hideous universal credit, which causes my constituents so much misery.

I thank Shirley-Anne Somerville for her efforts, Shona Robison for bringing the debate to the chamber, and the team at Social Security Scotland for making a success of its first year. I wish it a happy birthday.

Photo of Alison Johnstone Alison Johnstone Green

I thank Shona Robison for the opportunity to debate this issue. The transfer of responsibility over some areas of social security to the Scottish Parliament is a major milestone on Scotland’s devolution journey. It gives us the opportunity to reclaim the idea that when we provide a good, reliable income for the most vulnerable people in society, everyone benefits—and we need that idea more than ever.

We have a UK system that continues to treat some of the people who need its help in the most heartless way possible, despite years of being called out by academics, organisations representing people who need support, and now even by the United Nations. However dedicated and compassionate many of the public servants who run the social security system are, it is a system that often appears to be tone deaf to the needs of our most vulnerable citizens.

Many members across the chamber will have experience that my office does, ever more regularly, of having to help people who are totally ground down by a system that simply does not appear to care what it puts people though. That is only the people who ask for help; we know that some are so totally bewildered and exhausted by the complexity of the system that they give up. Others drop out of the system altogether, and that affects take-up. We know that there are many millions of pounds that are unclaimed and, as Bob Doris said, that money is an entitlement.

I am grateful that we have this opportunity to debate the agency’s work so far. One of the most important tasks that the agency has is to build a new culture around social security, by sweeping away that culture of suspicion of people who ask for help, and instead encouraging and empowering them to apply for what they are entitled to. When people do apply, they should get help from a system that understands the challenges that people face in applying for and getting support, and a system that takes away so many of the barriers that have been put in place by the DWP.

Bob Doris highlighted the challenges that the digital-by-default model has. He made it clear that we must have in place different mechanisms for people to get in touch in order to get the help that they need. However, such things can be much easier said than done. Social Security Scotland will need to undo decades of denigration of the very idea of social security and of the people who need its help.

Staffing the new system with people who have lived experience of social security is absolutely a good first step, and I would be very interested to hear from the cabinet secretary on that point in particular.

The motion is rightly very positive about the promise of Social Security Scotland and the progress that it has made so far, but there will always be room to improve. Although the number of complaints about best start grants is low compared with the number of applications, I note that the research that is referred to in the motion shows that the majority of complaints that have been made about best start grants were upheld.

Although I accept that the Scottish child payment could well be a huge boost to some of our poorest families, it is means tested and will face the challenge of take-up that almost all means-tested payments face in terms of ensuring that people are aware of their entitlement and are encouraged and supported to apply.

Dignity and respect are rightly at the heart of the work of the new agency, but we cannot have dignity and respect if we simply do not have enough money. The Scottish Government is absolutely right to top up carers allowance, and it is great to see best start paying out more than double the sure start maternity grant, but we have to continue to monitor those increases and ask whether they are really good enough. The new rate for carers is still far below what they deserve, given the huge value of unpaid care, which stands at more than £10 billion a year.

The real challenge, of course, will come when disability assistance for working-age people begins. It will replace PIP, which, according to Sheffield Hallam University research that was commissioned by the Social Security Committee, has taken an average of £2,600 from disabled Scots. Banning unnecessary face-to-face assessments, which is a change in the law that was brought about by the Greens, will be an important part of that, as it should mean that applicants get a fairer assessment of their needs.

The Greens wish Social Security Scotland a happy first birthday and applaud the excellent work that has been done so far by the agency and its staff.

Photo of Jeremy Balfour Jeremy Balfour Conservative

I, too, thank Shona Robison for securing the debate. I was happy to support the motion and I wish Social Security Scotland a happy birthday.

The first few years of the agency will be very important, as they will set the groundwork for going forward.

It is very important that we understand the role of the agency and the roles that other parties have to play in relation to it. When the Social Security (Scotland) Act 2018 became law, there was cross-party support for the idea that people who make applications will be entitled to independent advice and assistance throughout the process. Clearly, the agency can help, but I am concerned about some of the rumours that I am hearing, such as that the agency thinks that providing advice and assistance will be its role, not the role of a third party. I would be grateful if the cabinet secretary could confirm that, from the date of application, through the whole process, an individual will be entitled to independent advice and that it will not be the role of the agency to provide it.

George Adam’s intervention was disappointing, because we, as a Parliament, have to scrutinise what the new agency is doing and will do. The agency has done a lot of good work. We acknowledge that and say well done, but if we, as parliamentarians, are not going to scrutinise things that go wrong or raise difficult questions—

Photo of Jeremy Balfour Jeremy Balfour Conservative

No, I am sorry, I do not have time.

If we did not carry out that scrutiny, that would be disappointing. Audit Scotland raised some issues, so we need to make sure that we are going in the right direction.

Like Alison Johnstone, I think it is important that those with lived experience and other minorities work for the new agency. However, the figures that I have seen show that we are below the percentage that the new agency set as its target. I hope that the Scottish Government will encourage the agency to keep going towards that aim. As a Parliament, we must ensure that those with lived experience are given the appropriate opportunities.

The Audit Scotland report pointed out that, even in the agency’s first year, there has been a high level of contractors and temporary staff coming in and we do not have the number of people working for the new agency that was envisaged at this stage. We have to ensure that what is delivered is being delivered appropriately. Are the IT and cybersecurity absolutely right? I have been impressed when visiting the agency and was impressed by the Scottish Government presentations that Bob Doris and I attended and that suggest that those issues are on track. However, it is the role of the Scottish Parliament to ensure that they are delivered.

The best start grant is welcome, but in many ways it was one of the simpler benefits taken over by the new agency. Some questions have to be asked about why so many of those who were refused first time got the grant on appeal and what lessons we have learned from that. As we go forward with more complex benefits, we have to ensure that we get it right first time as often as possible.

We welcome the new agency, its principles and openness. However, as we often say in Parliament, actions speak louder than words. We need to see not only what actions took place in the past, but also those that will take place in the years ahead.

Photo of Shirley-Anne Somerville Shirley-Anne Somerville Scottish National Party

I am grateful to my colleague Shona Robison for lodging the motion for debate. It has been a good opportunity to mark the many positive things that Scotland’s new social security delivery agency has done in its first year.

Before Social Security Scotland was even established, many things were said about the delivery of our new system: it was going to be the single largest programme of work undertaken by any Scottish Government since devolution and the new agency would be making more payments in a week than the entire Scottish Government had previously made in a year. All those things remain just as true a year after the launch of our new agency as they were before. The challenge is no smaller and the level of complexity is still as high—indeed it is growing.

However, we have made good progress. In its first 12 months, Social Security Scotland, ably supported by colleagues from the wider social security directorate of the Scottish Government, has successfully launched the carers allowance supplement, the best start grant family of three separate cash payments, the best start foods scheme and, as recently as this week, the new funeral support payment. That is six benefits in 12 months. That is on top of the underlying work completed by the programme and the agency around the social security charter, for example, and the important groundwork for future benefits that is already in train.

We go on: the young carer grant will be launched in the autumn of 2019; with the co-operation of the UK Government, job start payments will be delivered by spring 2020; by next summer, we will deliver the first benefit in the Scottish disability benefit family; and, by the end of 2020, the Scottish child payment—a game-changer in the fight to end child poverty in Scotland—will begin. In early 2021, we will begin our new replacement for PIP.

All that is being done against the background of our continuing, overarching effort to deliver a person-centred system that is founded on the principles enshrined in the Social Security Act that was passed unanimously by the Parliament, reflects the commitments in our social security charter, and, as several members have pointed out, is co-designed by people with lived experience of the UK system. I take the opportunity to thank again everyone who has been involved in the experience panels and our working groups. They have played such a large and important part in what we have today. It is fundamental that, at the heart of our system, we have a belief that social security is a human right.

I come to a number of the points that members raised during the debate, beginning with Michelle Ballantyne. Let us start on a point of consensus: I acknowledge her welcome for the enthusiasm of the staff and their work, which she saw when she visited the agency’s headquarters. I am pleased that she had that impression; it is certainly my impression every single time that I go there. However, I gently warn her around the language that she used in relation to the joint ministerial working group and her very selective quotes from the previous Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, Amber Rudd, including the reference to discussion of a “cliff edge” because DWP assessments will end on a particular date. As the minutes of that ministerial working group show, the meeting was entirely a conversation between two Governments that recognised the time limits that they were under to get a joint project—the devolution of social security to the Scottish Parliament—under way.

I had many disagreements with Amber Rudd on a number of issues around benefit strategy, particularly in relation to reserved benefits. However, the meeting to which that quote relates was exceptionally constructive. That is the way in which she and I worked together in her time as secretary of state, and I look forward to that same constructive approach with the new Secretary of State for Work and Pensions.

People in the Scottish and UK Governments, and everybody who is involved in the process, absolutely recognise that there will be, as Audit Scotland said, a step change as we move towards wave 2. We absolutely recognise that step change, and we are well aware of the challenges that lie ahead. I am confident that the work that the Government and the agency are putting together will stand us in good stead.

I say, absolutely and clearly, that the Scottish child payment does not threaten disability payments. When Aileen Campbell made her statement in June, she announced changes in the timetable to certain disability payments in order to ensure that we could deliver the Scottish child payment and deliver the rest of the disability benefits, carers benefits and the case transfer—and so on—in a way that ensures that we are doing it as quickly as we can while never losing sight of that safe and secure transition. I hope that Michelle Ballantyne will accept that reassurance. I will, of course, update Parliament on the further work that we have been doing on the Scottish child payment in due course.

Turning to Jenny Marra’s contribution, I am afraid that I do not think that the constituency organisation that she mentioned sits in my portfolio remit, but in that of Aileen Campbell. I therefore invite her to write to my colleague to raise any concerns. I do not think that they will come to me personally, but I am sure that Ms Campbell will respond to Jenny Marra’s points in detail.

It is very important that we consider the range of options that we could have had for the Scottish child payment. The example of automation, and the benefits that it could have had, was given. Although automation undoubtedly offers benefits—that is why we considered it as part of the discussions around the Scottish child payment—it was determined that it was not the quickest way that we could deliver the payment, and it was important for us to move quickly. I refer Jenny Marra to the policy position that the Scottish Government put out around the Scottish child payment and to the statement that Aileen Campbell made in June.

I will move on to the discussion around the offices in Dundee, which I appreciate that some members—particularly Jenny Marra—mentioned. The Dundee house lease is an 18-month lease initially, with a six-month rolling lease beyond that. We are, of course, considering wider options and our permanent base. Due to commercial confidentiality, Jenny Marra will unfortunately get the same reply from me that I believe she did from David Wallace when he was at her committee last week. Although I cannot go into the detail of that, I hope that I can reassure her that we, and the agency, are doing everything that we can to move that on as quickly as possible.

Photo of Jenny Marra Jenny Marra Labour

We can check the

Official Report

, but I believe that the chief executive said that it comes down not to commercial confidentiality, but to restrictions in the commercial property market in Dundee. I do not share that perception. A lot of office accommodation is available in the city. Some more clarity on that from the minister would be really welcome.

Photo of Shirley-Anne Somerville Shirley-Anne Somerville Scottish National Party

The point that I am trying to make is that I cannot go into the details of the work that we are doing around what offices we are looking at or the work to achieve a permanent office, due to commercial confidentiality. It would not be appropriate for me to go into the details of that, but I recognise Jenny Marra’s point about the importance of making a quick decision on that, if at all possible.

A number of other points were raised by members. I do not have time to go into them all in detail, but Alison Johnstone was quite right about the recruitment culture that is required. I am pleased that the number of staff within Social Security Scotland who have a disability or a long-term condition is the same as the proportion in the wider Scottish public. I hope that that again provides reassurance that we are moving forward with our recruitment in a very serious way to ensure that those with lived experience are part of the agency and that it reflects wider Scottish society.

In closing, I pay tribute to the more than 400 staff of Social Security Scotland who have, since the agency was established last year, put money into the pockets and bank accounts of over 91,000 people across Scotland—payments that, in a significant number of cases, they would not have got under predecessor schemes. All of that has been done with the support of the dedicated and hard-working staff in the social security programme, whose work has been critical in getting us to the point of having an agency with the systems to deliver it.

There is much that we can rightly be proud of in the Government, in the wider Scottish Parliament and, I hope, in Scotland about what we have done in our first year of having a social security agency. We will have lessons to learn and there is much still to be done, but I believe that we have set a very proud and firm foundation that shows that we can indeed build a social security system with dignity, fairness and respect at its heart.

13:27 Meeting suspended.

14:30 On resuming—