Engagements

First Minister's Question Time – in the Scottish Parliament at 12:00 pm on 9 September 2010.

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Photo of Iain Gray Iain Gray Labour 12:00, 9 September 2010

To ask the First Minister what engagements he has planned for the rest of the day. (S3F-2531)

Photo of Alex Salmond Alex Salmond First Minister of Scotland, Leader, Scottish National Party

I am delighted that I and the party leaders will shortly be joining the Cardinal of Scotland to launch the new tartan that was commissioned to celebrate the visit of His Holiness Pope Benedict to Scotland next week. I notice that all the party leaders are sporting the tartan in one form or another. I am sure that the whole chamber will wish to join me in saying how much we are looking forward to the visit of His Holiness to Scotland next week.

Photo of Iain Gray Iain Gray Labour

Has the First Minister had the privilege of visiting the construction of the Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier at Rosyth or on the Clyde?

Photo of Alex Salmond Alex Salmond First Minister of Scotland, Leader, Scottish National Party

No, I have not had that privilege, but I know that my deputy leader Nicola Sturgeon is in constant touch with both management and unions at the Clyde yards, including being in touch with BAE this very morning, for obvious reasons.

I know that this is sometimes difficult, but I can give the chamber some information on how we are proceeding with contact with the United Kingdom Government on what is a hugely serious issue. We received an invitation from Liam Fox on 5 August to attend a quadrilateral on the strategic defence review. We accepted that invitation and suggested 6 September as a date for such a meeting. That did not prove possible, because I understand that the Northern Irish delegation was not able to attend on that date.

We are becoming increasingly concerned that if the quadrilateral meeting between ministers does not take place quickly, there is a possibility that decisions will be made before it does. Therefore, we have prepared a dossier, which we will share with BAE management and the unions in Rosyth and on the Clyde and community interests in the north-east of Scotland. I want as far as possible to get the maximum Scottish unity on this issue, if we are to make an effective submission to the Ministry of Defence.

Photo of Iain Gray Iain Gray Labour

I would certainly recommend that the First Minister finds the opportunity to visit the construction of these carriers. Last month in Rosyth I joined workers who were constructing sections of the first carrier and stood on what will be the deck of the biggest naval ship ever built in Scotland, or indeed Britain. It is truly remarkable in its complexity and scale, but even more remarkable are the pride and skill of those who are building it. To even think of cancelling that first carrier at this stage is crazy.

In the First Minister's dossier, can we be sure that he makes the case that both carriers must be built?

Photo of Alex Salmond Alex Salmond First Minister of Scotland, Leader, Scottish National Party

Yes. The full implications of the cancellation of one or both projects will be spelt out in that dossier. The extent of possible job losses would range from 5,000 to 10,000 across Scotland, depending on how one calculates the figures. It should be understood that there are other threats to the defence infrastructure in Scotland, in particular in the north-east of Scotland, where huge job losses would also be possible if adverse decisions were made.

Our intention is to unite as much opinion as possible. I know that that is difficult because we are making a submission to a Government that might be making proposals to the contrary. However, everything that we know about the history of shipbuilding on the Clyde and elsewhere and the key battles in Scotland tells us that the maximum political unity in this chamber is likely to yield the best results.

Photo of Iain Gray Iain Gray Labour

It is absolutely the case that we must marshal the most united campaign in defence of the contracts. That is the lesson from previous occasions, for example when Rosyth was betrayed by previous Governments in the early 1990s.

This morning I spoke to trade union conveners in Rosyth and on the Clyde. They are concerned not just for the jobs in their yards but for the future of shipbuilding in the United Kingdom. I know that the Scottish Trades Union Congress and the Scottish Council for Development and Industry are making their views known on the consequences of a decision to cancel the contracts. In a spirit of unity, will the First Minister join me and the trade unionists in making cross-party representations to the Ministry of Defence, in London if necessary, to save Scotland's shipbuilding industry?

Photo of Alex Salmond Alex Salmond First Minister of Scotland, Leader, Scottish National Party

May I suggest that we proceed on this basis? As I said, we have responded to an invitation from the Secretary of State for Defence and agreed to take part in a ministerial meeting. The letter, which I have with me, says that the meeting is to take place before final decisions are made—that is made clear. Therefore, we are concerned about this morning's reports and other reports during the past few weeks. Hence the submission that we have drawn up. I am happy to share the submission with all the parties in the Parliament. Of course, it might be that there is not cross-party unity on certain aspects. However, if we can establish unity in terms of an understanding of the full implications for the economy and skills base in Scotland, that will be an achievement in itself.

I know Jamie Webster extremely well and know that he and his shop steward colleagues would like us to proceed in that way. I know that the community interests in north-east Scotland would like us to proceed in that way. Let us see how much unity we can get behind the submission that we make to the MOD and let us ensure that we get it in before the final decisions are made.

Photo of Iain Gray Iain Gray Labour

There is no disagreement between the First Minister and me about the consequences of a decision to cancel the contracts. Cancellation would mean the loss of 4,000 jobs in Govan, 2,500 jobs in Rosyth and perhaps as many as 10,000 supply-chain jobs. Hundreds of apprenticeships would go. Cancellation would not only in effect end shipbuilding in Scotland but undermine our engineering base, which is so important not just for the future of shipbuilding but for other, new industries, such as renewables.

The importance of the decision, which is imminent, cannot be overstated. Later today I expect to see the Secretary of State for Scotland, and I will certainly raise the issue with him. The dossier is welcome and the meeting that the First Minister is arranging is welcome. For the sake of unity, we must make the argument in as many places, in as many ways and with as many voices as we can do. The case cannot simply be a Government case. That is why I am asking the First Minister to work with me and the trade unions to make cross-party representation in support of the Scottish Government's case. Like the First Minister, I do not know how wide the cross-party support that we get will be, but surely the voice of the First Minister and the leader of the Opposition would be a good start.

Photo of Alex Salmond Alex Salmond First Minister of Scotland, Leader, Scottish National Party

We established that consensus and agreement in my answer to the first question, so we should not struggle to remove it by the time we reach the answer to the final question.

Let me finish by making the following remarks. Yes, I agree to sharing the submission with all parties in the Parliament. Yes, where we agree—and there are key points of agreement with regard to shipbuilding and the aircraft bases in the north-east—in my view we should submit jointly, not just between parties but with worker and management interests, which are keenly involved as well. That seems to be a sensible proposition, which will give us the maximum leverage.

Of course, that will not stop political parties putting in submissions on elements on which we disagree, for example on whether the Trident missile system should be included in the strategic defence review. Let us achieve the maximum unity where we can do. I said in answer to Iain Gray's first question and I repeat: I agree with him. I hope that that will carry the maximum unity across the Parliament.