Section 33 — Subordinate legislation

Crofting Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3 – in the Scottish Parliament at 10:45 am on 1st July 2010.

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Amendment 93 moved—[Peter Peacock].

Photo of Trish Godman Trish Godman Labour

The question is, that amendment 93 be agreed to. Are we agreed?

That is agreed.

Amendment 93 agreed to.

Photo of Trish Godman Trish Godman Labour

I call amendments 94 to 97, in the name of the minister

Photo of Trish Godman Trish Godman Labour

One of the clerks heard it, but I can assure you that I did not hear it, so perhaps you should shout a wee bit louder next time.

The question is, that amendment 93 be—

Members:

No! [ Interruption .]

Photo of Trish Godman Trish Godman Labour

As I had already called amendments 94 to 97, as far as I am concerned the vote has been taken. [ Interruption .]

Photo of Roseanna Cunningham Roseanna Cunningham Scottish National Party

I appreciate that you did not hear me say no, Presiding Officer, but the clerk did and so did members here. I really must ask that the vote be taken on amendment 93.

Photo of Trish Godman Trish Godman Labour

I am sorry, but I am in the chair. The clerk said that she heard it after I had called the next amendments. I did not hear you—[ Interruption .]

Photo of Alasdair Allan Alasdair Allan Scottish National Party

With the greatest respect to the chair, Presiding Officer, we are not responsible if the only person in the chamber who did not hear was you. [ Interruption .]

Photo of Trish Godman Trish Godman Labour

Can I just answer that? That was not a point of order—[ Interruption .] If members would quieten down, they might hear something. That was not a point of order, but I was not the only one up here who did not hear. There are three people sitting here; two did not hear.

Photo of Karen Gillon Karen Gillon Labour

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Under standing orders, I understand that, as you have called another vote, we should therefore proceed and the vote stands.

Photo of Bruce Crawford Bruce Crawford Scottish National Party

On a point of order, Presiding Order. I realise that this is a difficult situation—I fully understand that. However, you have just conceded yourself that a member of the clerking team heard a no being called in the Parliament. Therefore, there is only one conclusion that can be drawn—that a no was clearly called from the Parliament. In those circumstances, you must accept that.

Photo of Trish Godman Trish Godman Labour

I am sorry, Mr Crawford, but it is not clear. That is the problem: it is not clear—[ Interruption .] I have moved on. I did not hear it, and I intend to move on.

Photo of Bruce Crawford Bruce Crawford Scottish National Party

Under these circumstances, Presiding Officer, I call for an adjournment.

Photo of Trish Godman Trish Godman Labour

I do not see any reason for an adjournment, as I have already called the next set of amendments. I did not hear it, and I am moving on.

I call amendments 94 to 97—[Interruption.]

Photo of Trish Godman Trish Godman Labour

I am not sure who was first but, if it is the same point of order, I call Tricia Marwick.

Photo of Tricia Marwick Tricia Marwick Scottish National Party

No was clearly said, but the point of order is this, Presiding Officer. You may have gone on to the next set of amendments, but Ms Cunningham did not move them. Therefore, no vote has been called and you are quite within your rights to go back to amendment 93 and take a vote on it.

Photo of Trish Godman Trish Godman Labour

No, that is not the case—[ Interruption .]

Photo of Alasdair Allan Alasdair Allan Scottish National Party

I ask for the record whether it is the Presiding Officer's view that the clerk who heard those words imagined them. [ Interruption .]

Photo of Trish Godman Trish Godman Labour

Mr Allan, this is a very serious moment. I really do not feel that you should make that kind of comment. I call Mr Rumbles.

Photo of Mike Rumbles Mike Rumbles Liberal Democrat

With respect, Presiding Officer, having taken informal soundings among three of the four business managers—I hope that the fourth business manager would agree—I think that it is in everybody's interest if we could suspend standing orders for the moment and have an adjournment until we sort this out.

Photo of Trish Godman Trish Godman Labour

I am in the chair and the business managers do not run what we are going through.

Photo of Alex Neil Alex Neil Scottish National Party

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. We have been in a similar position before, when a Presiding Officer did not hear and was about to move on but then took the vote. I suggest that we follow precedent.

Photo of Trish Godman Trish Godman Labour

I point out again that I had moved on. I had already called out the next set of amendments when I was told that someone had called out no—I do not know who it was.

Photo of Bruce Crawford Bruce Crawford Scottish National Party

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would like to move a motion to suspend.

Photo of Trish Godman Trish Godman Labour

You cannot have a motion to suspend. [ Interruption .] I am sorry but, if you all shout at me at once, I cannot attend to you.

Photo of Karen Gillon Karen Gillon Labour

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I understand that, according to the standing orders, if the Presiding Officer has made a ruling and we have moved on to a different set of votes, then another vote has been called and we should proceed to that vote. That is what the standing orders say. If the Government wishes to bully the Presiding Officer—

Members:

Oh!

Photo of Karen Gillon Karen Gillon Labour

That is what it is seeking to do. The Presiding Officer has called the vote and we should carry out that vote.

Photo of Trish Godman Trish Godman Labour

I make it absolutely clear that I do not think that I am being bullied. I have given you a ruling. I genuinely did not hear anyone say no. I have moved on and the vote has been taken.

Photo of Paul Martin Paul Martin Labour

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I appreciate that there might be discrepancies in what has been heard. However, we know that audio recordings are taken of proceedings in the chamber. I think that it would be helpful to have an adjournment to allow the audio tapes to be interrogated to clarify whether the Minister for Environment did, in fact, say no in respect of the amendment. We have been able to interrogate tapes in the past in that respect.

Photo of Trish Godman Trish Godman Labour

I am sorry, but I have made a ruling from the chair. I did not hear anyone say no, and I moved on to the next set of amendments. I intend to continue with those.

Photo of Bruce Crawford Bruce Crawford Scottish National Party

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I believe that, under the standing orders, there is capacity for me to move a motion without notice that we suspend. I therefore move a motion without notice that we suspend proceedings to sort this out properly, before it goes any further.

Photo of Trish Godman Trish Godman Labour

Can you tell me what rule it is under?

Photo of Bruce Crawford Bruce Crawford Scottish National Party

It is within the standing orders. [ Interruption .]

Photo of Trish Godman Trish Godman Labour

Can I have members' attention just for one minute? This is a very unfortunate set of circumstances. However, I can say with absolute and complete honesty that I did not hear anyone say no, so I moved on. I want to make that clear to all of you. I am prepared to suspend the meeting for five minutes for members to discuss the matter and come back. However, remember what I said: I did not hear anything, so I legitimately and honestly moved on to the next vote. You can now have your discussion.

Meeting suspended.

On resuming—

Photo of Trish Godman Trish Godman Labour 11:06 am, 1st July 2010

I call amendments 94 to 97, all in the name of the minister and all previously debated. I invite the minister to move the amendments en bloc.

Photo of Trish Godman Trish Godman Labour

Yes, minister. I heard you.

Amendments 94 to 97 moved—[Roseanna Cunningham]—and agreed to.