– in the Scottish Parliament at 4:59 pm on 18 March 2009.
Alex Fergusson
None
4:59,
18 March 2009
The next item of business is consideration of business motion S3M-3717, in the name of Bruce Crawford, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme.
Motion moved,
That the Parliament agrees the following programme of business— Wednesday 25 March 2009
2.30 pm Time for Reflection followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee Debate: Review of Section 6 of the Code of Conduct (Cross-Party Groups)
followed by Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee Debate: Changes to the Code of Conduct Arising from the Reimbursement of Members' Expenses Scheme followed by Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee Debate: Review of Section 8 of the Code of Conduct followed by Announcement of Appointment of Scottish Public Services Ombudsman followed by Scottish Government Debate: Local Government Finance Act 1992 (Scotland) Amendment Order 2009 followed by Business Motion followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time followed by Members' Business Thursday 26 March 2009
9.15 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party Business
11.40 am General Question Time 12 noon First Minister's Question Time
2.15 pm Themed Question Time Rural Affairs and the Environment; Justice and Law Officers
2.55 pm Scottish Government Debate: Supporting Economic Recovery followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time followed by Members' Business Wednesday 1 April 2009
2.30 pm Time for Reflection
5.00 pm Decision Time followed by Members' Business Thursday 2 April 2009
9.15 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Scottish Government Business
11.40 am General Question Time 12 noon First Minister's Question Time
2.15 pm Themed Question Time Finance and Sustainable Growth
2.55 pm Scottish Government Business followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time followed by Members' Business—[Bruce Crawford.]
Alex Fergusson
None
Jeremy Purvis has indicated that he wishes to speak against the motion.
Jeremy Purvis
Liberal Democrat
5:00,
18 March 2009
It is with regret that I rise to speak against the business motion that sets out the business programme for next week. I do so noting that the SNP has lodged two further Sewell motions today. At one point last autumn, more devolved legislation was going through the Westminster Parliament than was going through the Scottish Parliament.
Next week, the SNP proposes to hold yet another debate on the economy without a resolution of the Parliament. The difficulty with the business motion is not that it proposes a debate on the economy but that, yet again, the Government is asking us to debate an issue of its choosing without testing the Parliament's opinion on its actions. The Government may say in response that it is important that the Parliament speaks with one voice on the issue of economic recovery, but in order for the Parliament to have a voice, it must pass a resolution after a debate, rather than there being Government assertion without debate.
We have some common cause with the Government on the economy. We brought to the Parliament a debate on the merger of Lloyds TSB and HBOS, and the Parliament voted against the merger. The vote was welcomed by Kenneth Clarke in Another place and described as reckless and unwise by the Conservatives in this place, but that example shows that the Parliament needs to
There are occasions when it is appropriate for the Parliament to have subject debates. The standing orders allow that, but they present subject debates as an exception to the rule. The Government seems to prefer them to debates with motions. In the previous session of Parliament, there were five subject debates. Since the SNP came into office, there have been 16 such debates, and, as the First Minister might say, we are only halfway through.
It would be wholly inappropriate to debate the economy next week without a Government motion. The Government obviously takes the view that no one is bothered whether it lodges a motion or not. This morning, it published "Progress on the Scottish Economic Recovery Programme", but it is not seeking a debate next week in which the Parliament can note that document. On the very day when the Government promotes its policies, it judges it inappropriate for the Parliament to have a say on whether it is satisfied with them. The Government considers the Parliament to be superfluous in many areas, unless of course it sees an opportunity to ditch manifesto commitments. That is a pick-and-mix approach to parliamentary accountability.
There is no disagreement that the Parliament should be united on the need for economic recovery, but we abrogate our responsibility if we deny that there needs to be debate and a resolution on what the Parliament believes are the right measures to bring that about. That is why I hope that the Government will think again and will test the Parliament's opinion rather than just use its time.
Bruce Crawford
Scottish National Party
5:03,
18 March 2009
If Jeremy Purvis is right and the Parliament has had 16 debates without a motion, not only must the Parliamentary Bureau have agreed that those debates should take place but the Parliament must have agreed.
At a time of unprecedented economic uncertainty, the last thing that the Parliament needs—and, more important, the last thing that the public need—is politicians who are more concerned about internal party politics and about who voted for what than about economic recovery. What the public want is an understanding that politicians have the vision, the plans and the imagination to address the problems that individuals and businesses are facing. A debate without a motion will give members in all parts of the chamber the chance to have a full, open and frank debate about how best we can help our
Since October, the Parliament has had 12 debates and nine statements with strong economic themes. There will be plenty more opportunities to have debates with motions in the future, because, as we all know, the economic problems will be with us for some considerable time yet.
In next week's debate, Labour members will, no doubt, wish to criticise elements of the Scottish Government's economic recovery plan. They might even want to praise some of it. I have no doubt that, on our side, we will have some criticisms of the United Kingdom Government's position, but no doubt we will want to praise some aspects of it as well. Surely the Tories will want to put under the microscope the proposals of both the Scottish and UK Governments. We will leave it to the Liberals to argue fiercely about parliamentary processes while the rest of us address the issues that concern the people of Scotland.
Alex Fergusson
None
The question is, that motion S3M-3717, in the name of Bruce Crawford, be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Alex Fergusson
None
There will be a Division.
Division number 1
For: Aitken, Bill, Alexander, Ms Wendy, Allan, Alasdair, Baker, Claire, Baker, Richard, Boyack, Sarah, Brocklebank, Ted, Brown, Gavin, Brown, Keith, Brownlee, Derek, Butler, Bill, Campbell, Aileen, Carlaw, Jackson, Chisholm, Malcolm, Coffey, Willie, Craigie, Cathie, Crawford, Bruce, Cunningham, Roseanna, Curran, Margaret, Don, Nigel, Doris, Bob, Eadie, Helen, Ewing, Fergus, Fabiani, Linda, Ferguson, Patricia, FitzPatrick, Joe, Fraser, Murdo, Gibson, Kenneth, Gibson, Rob, Glen, Marlyn, Godman, Trish, Goldie, Annabel, Gordon, Charlie, Grahame, Christine, Grant, Rhoda, Gray, Iain, Harvie, Christopher, Henry, Hugh, Hepburn, Jamie, Hyslop, Fiona, Ingram, Adam, Jamieson, Cathy, Johnstone, Alex, Kelly, James, Kerr, Andy, Kidd, Bill, Lamont, Johann, Lamont, John, Lochhead, Richard, MacAskill, Kenny, Macdonald, Lewis, Macintosh, Ken, Martin, Paul, Marwick, Tricia, Mather, Jim, Matheson, Michael, McAveety, Mr Frank, McCabe, Tom, McConnell, Jack, McGrigor, Jamie, McKee, Ian, McKelvie, Christina, McLaughlin, Anne, McLetchie, David, McMahon, Michael, McMillan, Stuart, McNeil, Duncan, McNeill, Pauline, McNulty, Des, Milne, Nanette, Morgan, Alasdair, Mulligan, Mary, Murray, Elaine, Neil, Alex, Oldfather, Irene, Paterson, Gil, Peacock, Peter, Robison, Shona, Russell, Michael, Salmond, Alex, Scanlon, Mary, Scott, John, Simpson, Dr Richard, Smith, Elaine, Smith, Elizabeth, Somerville, Shirley-Anne, Stevenson, Stewart, Stewart, David, Sturgeon, Nicola, Swinney, John, Thompson, Dave, Watt, Maureen, White, Sandra, Whitefield, Karen, Whitton, David, Wilson, Bill, Wilson, John
Against: Brown, Robert, Finnie, Ross, Harper, Robin, Harvie, Patrick, Hume, Jim, McArthur, Liam, McInnes, Alison, Munro, John Farquhar, O'Donnell, Hugh, Pringle, Mike, Purvis, Jeremy, Rumbles, Mike, Scott, Tavish, Smith, Iain, Smith, Margaret, Stephen, Nicol, Stone, Jamie, Tolson, Jim
Alex Fergusson
None
The result of the Division is: For 97, Against 18, Abstentions 0.
Motion agreed to,
That the Parliament agrees the following programme of business— Wednesday 25 March 2009
2.30 pm Time for Reflection followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee Debate: Review of Section 6 of the Code of Conduct (Cross-Party Groups)
followed by Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee Debate: Changes to the Code of Conduct Arising from the Reimbursement of Members' Expenses Scheme followed by Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee Debate: Review of Section 8 of the Code of Conduct followed by Announcement of Appointment of Scottish Public Services Ombudsman followed by Scottish Government Debate: Local Government Finance Act 1992 (Scotland) Amendment Order 2009 followed by Business Motion followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time followed by Members' Business Thursday 26 March 2009
9.15 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party Business
11.40 am General Question Time 12 noon First Minister's Question Time
2.15 pm Themed Question Time Rural Affairs and the Environment; Justice and Law Officers
2.55 pm Scottish Government Debate: Supporting Economic Recovery followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time followed by Members' Business Wednesday 1 April 2009
2.30 pm Time for Reflection followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Scottish Government Business followed by Business Motion followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time followed by Members' Business Thursday 2 April 2009
9.15 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Scottish Government Business
11.40 am General Question Time 12 noon First Minister's Question Time
2.15 pm Themed Question Time Finance and Sustainable Growth
2.55 pm Scottish Government Business followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time followed by Members' Business
Alex Fergusson
None
The next item of business is consideration of business motion S3M-3718, in the name of Bruce Crawford, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau—[ Interruption. ] If members want to know what this is about, it would be as well for them to listen. The motion sets out a timetable for stage 1 of the Criminal Justice and Licensing (Scotland) Bill.
Motion moved,
That the Parliament agrees that consideration of the Criminal Justice and Licensing (Scotland) Bill at Stage 1 be completed by 9 October 2009.—[Bruce Crawford.]
Motion agreed to.
Question Time is an opportunity for MPs and Members of the House of Lords to ask Government Ministers questions. These questions are asked in the Chamber itself and are known as Oral Questions. Members may also put down Written Questions. In the House of Commons, Question Time takes place for an hour on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays after Prayers. The different Government Departments answer questions according to a rota and the questions asked must relate to the responsibilities of the Government Department concerned. In the House of Lords up to four questions may be asked of the Government at the beginning of each day's business. They are known as 'starred questions' because they are marked with a star on the Order Paper. Questions may also be asked at the end of each day's business and these may include a short debate. They are known as 'unstarred questions' and are less frequent. Questions in both Houses must be written down in advance and put on the agenda and both Houses have methods for selecting the questions that will be asked. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P1 at the UK Parliament site.
As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
Ministers make up the Government and almost all are members of the House of Lords or the House of Commons. There are three main types of Minister. Departmental Ministers are in charge of Government Departments. The Government is divided into different Departments which have responsibilities for different areas. For example the Treasury is in charge of Government spending. Departmental Ministers in the Cabinet are generally called 'Secretary of State' but some have special titles such as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Ministers of State and Junior Ministers assist the ministers in charge of the department. They normally have responsibility for a particular area within the department and are sometimes given a title that reflects this - for example Minister of Transport.
The House of Commons.
During a debate members of the House of Commons traditionally refer to the House of Lords as 'another place' or 'the other place'.
Peers return the gesture when they speak of the Commons in the same way.
This arcane form of address is something the Labour Government has been reviewing as part of its programme to modernise the Houses of Parliament.
The Conservatives are a centre-right political party in the UK, founded in the 1830s. They are also known as the Tory party.
With a lower-case ‘c’, ‘conservative’ is an adjective which implies a dislike of change, and a preference for traditional values.
The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
