Section 96 — Purchase of alcohol by or for a child or young person

Licensing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3 – in the Scottish Parliament at 4:30 pm on 16 November 2005.

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Photo of Murray Tosh Murray Tosh Conservative 4:30, 16 November 2005

Group 14 relates to test purchasing of alcohol by children or young people. Amendment 37, in the name of the minister, is the only amendment in the group.

Photo of George Lyon George Lyon Liberal Democrat

During stage 2, the Lord Advocate announced that he is now prepared to allow test purchasing of alcohol. The Executive very much welcomes that announcement, which I am sure also enjoys the chamber's support. It provides the police and many others with an essential tool in the fight against underage sales and drinking.

Amendment 37 seeks to give a child or young person immunity from committing an offence where test purchasing is authorised by a chief constable and to put an obligation on the chief constable to avoid any risk to the test purchaser's welfare. The amendment also allows the commencement of the provisions for a proposed pilot exercise that will be undertaken to ensure that the procedures afford adequate protection to everyone involved before test purchasing is rolled out throughout the country.

The provision in amendment 37 will underpin the bill's no-proof, no-sale provisions, which represent an important tool in tackling the underage drinking that bedevils many communities. I hope that the chamber will support the amendment.

I move amendment 37.

Photo of Bruce Crawford Bruce Crawford Scottish National Party

I am happy to say that the SNP will support amendment 37. I am very pleased with the Executive's approach to the issue. When I lodged a probing amendment on the issue at stage 2, the minister said that he would address it constructively at stage 3. That is what has happened, and the amendment provides a good way forward.

My only slight caveat is that we must ensure that young individuals involved in test purchasing are given all the protection and counselling that they need to deal with every circumstance. That said, I am glad that the Executive has lodged amendment 37.

Photo of David Davidson David Davidson Conservative

We have great sympathy for amendment 37. However, I believe that, in a recent case in Linlithgow, a drugs conviction was overturned on appeal on the ground of entrapment. I hope that the minister can assure us that that case has been thoroughly investigated. More important, can he assure us that the Lord Advocate will issue strict guidelines on the implementation of the provision?

Photo of Brian Monteith Brian Monteith Independent 4:45, 16 November 2005

It really does say something about how far Labour has travelled when the Executive seeks to introduce clandestine operations and entrapment—such abhorrent operations were used to entrap people who were starting up trade unions in the 19 th century, in order to show that they were conspiring against their employers. It was wrong then and it is wrong now. Entrapment is entrapment, whether it is advocated by the Labour Party or by Lord Liverpool. Members should vote against amendment 37.

Photo of George Lyon George Lyon Liberal Democrat

I thank Bruce Crawford for his support. He was quite right to state that he lodged a probing amendment at stage 2, which brought the issue to the fore. Since I took over my portfolio, I have been keen to ensure that test purchasing is put in place.

I would like to respond to a couple of the points that have been raised. Protection of the interests of the child is absolutely at the heart of our approach, and guidance will be issued to chief constables, who will have responsibility for test purchasing and for the welfare of the children involved in the pilot exercise. The pilot will commence soon, because we intend test purchasing to go ahead before the full range of the bill's other measures comes into force. I can assure members that the Lord Advocate will consult chief constables and will ensure that appropriate guidance is drawn up to put protecting the interests of the child at the heart of our approach to the matter.

Photo of David Davidson David Davidson Conservative

Having spoken to the Lord Advocate, is Mr Lyon in a position to comment on entrapment? Has the Lord Advocate cleared what is going on?

Photo of George Lyon George Lyon Liberal Democrat

Far be it from me to speak on behalf of the Lord Advocate. I intend to write to Mr Davidson and other members to explain the situation, if that would be suitable.

Photo of Murray Tosh Murray Tosh Conservative

The question is, that amendment 37 be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members:

No.

Division number 8

For: Adam, Brian, Aitken, Bill, Alexander, Ms Wendy, Arbuckle, Mr Andrew, Baird, Shiona, Baker, Richard, Ballance, Chris, Ballard, Mark, Barrie, Scott, Brankin, Rhona, Brocklebank, Mr Ted, Brown, Robert, Brownlee, Derek, Canavan, Dennis, Chisholm, Malcolm, Craigie, Cathie, Crawford, Bruce, Cunningham, Roseanna, Curran, Ms Margaret, Davidson, Mr David, Deacon, Susan, Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James, Eadie, Helen, Ewing, Fergus, Ewing, Mrs Margaret, Ferguson, Patricia, Finnie, Ross, Fraser, Murdo, Gallie, Phil, Gibson, Rob, Glen, Marlyn, Godman, Trish, Goldie, Miss Annabel, Gordon, Mr Charlie, Gorrie, Donald, Harper, Robin, Harvie, Patrick, Henry, Hugh, Hughes, Janis, Hyslop, Fiona, Ingram, Mr Adam, Jackson, Dr Sylvia, Jamieson, Cathy, Jamieson, Margaret, Johnstone, Alex, Kerr, Mr Andy, Lamont, Johann, Livingstone, Marilyn, Lochhead, Richard, Lyon, George, MacAskill, Mr Kenny, Macdonald, Lewis, Macintosh, Mr Kenneth, Maclean, Kate, Macmillan, Maureen, Martin, Campbell, Martin, Paul, Mather, Jim, Matheson, Michael, Maxwell, Mr Stewart, May, Christine, McAveety, Mr Frank, McCabe, Mr Tom, McConnell, Mr Jack, McFee, Mr Bruce, McGrigor, Mr Jamie, McMahon, Michael, McNeil, Mr Duncan, McNeill, Pauline, Milne, Mrs Nanette, Mitchell, Margaret, Morgan, Alasdair, Morrison, Mr Alasdair, Muldoon, Bristow, Mulligan, Mrs Mary, Munro, John Farquhar, Murray, Dr Elaine, Peacock, Peter, Peattie, Cathy, Pringle, Mike, Purvis, Jeremy, Radcliffe, Nora, Robson, Euan, Rumbles, Mike, Ruskell, Mr Mark, Scanlon, Mary, Scott, Eleanor, Scott, Tavish, Sheridan, Tommy, Smith, Elaine, Smith, Iain, Smith, Margaret, Stephen, Nicol, Stone, Mr Jamie, Swinburne, John, Swinney, Mr John, Turner, Dr Jean, Welsh, Mr Andrew, Wilson, Allan
Against: Monteith, Mr Brian
Abstentions: Leckie, Carolyn

Photo of Murray Tosh Murray Tosh Conservative

The result of the division is: For 99, Against 1, Abstentions 1.

Amendment 37 agreed to.

Amendment 3 not moved.

Amendment 75 moved—[Paul Martin]—and agreed to.