Criminal Procedure (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3 – in the Scottish Parliament at 4:15 pm on 28 April 2004.
Murray Tosh
Conservative
4:15,
28 April 2004
Group 11 is on the citation of witnesses for precognition. Amendment 120, in the name of Nicola Sturgeon, is grouped with amendment 121.
Nicola Sturgeon
Scottish National Party
Amendment 120 would provide for the personal citation of witnesses for precognition. The amendment would ensure that a witness would not be found guilty of an offence for failure to attend for precognition unless the citation had been served personally on the witness. Serving the citation in that way would ensure that the witness was aware of the date, time and place of the precognition and it would remove the possibility of a witness being found guilty of an offence for failure to appear when they were, for example, on holiday and had therefore not received the citation.
Amendment 121 deals with legal privilege. It provides that a witness who attends for precognition shall not be obliged to disclose information subject to legal privilege for the reasons that I outlined earlier in relation to article 8 of the European convention on human rights. The amendment also contains a definition of
"information subject to legal privilege".
I move amendment 120.
Margaret Mitchell
Conservative
I support Nicola Sturgeon's Amendment 120. If a witness is to be cited, it is essential for the citation to be served in person to ensure that they have received it. Legal privilege is a matter for the judge to manage and we are therefore not in favour of amendment 121.
Hugh Henry
Labour
We do not consider that it is necessary to require police constables to serve
It is recognised that there will be confidential communication between an accused and his legal representative. The provisions must be read against the background of the general law, and we do not believe that anything in them could be taken to require information to be disclosed if the witness has legitimate grounds for refusing to disclose it. That applies whether those grounds are based on confidentiality or on some other protection that is afforded by the law, such as the right not to give information that would incriminate oneself. We do not believe that it is appropriate to introduce specific provision in relation to one ground on which a witness might refuse to disclose information.
I hope that Amendment 120 will be opposed and that amendment 121 will not be moved.
Nicola Sturgeon
Scottish National Party
It is my understanding that Amendment 120 would not require personal citation in every case. If a witness did not turn up for precognition, a citation would have to be served on them in person before they could be found guilty of an offence. That approach is eminently sensible; it would not lead to the waste of police resources that the Minister talked about because it would not demand personal citation in every case. It would be inequitable and unjust to find someone guilty of a criminal offence for not turning up for precognition if they were not aware that they were supposed to turn up because they were away when the details were delivered. Amendment 120 has common sense to commend it. I have no further comment to make on amendment 121.
Murray Tosh
Conservative
The question is, that Amendment 120 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Murray Tosh
Conservative
There will be a Division.
Division number 16
For: Adam, Brian, Aitken, Bill, Baird, Shiona, Ballance, Chris, Ballard, Mark, Byrne, Ms Rosemary, Crawford, Bruce, Cunningham, Roseanna, Davidson, Mr David, Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James, Ewing, Fergus, Fabiani, Linda, Fergusson, Alex, Fox, Colin, Fraser, Murdo, Gallie, Phil, Gibson, Rob, Goldie, Miss Annabel, Grahame, Christine, Harper, Robin, Harvie, Patrick, Hyslop, Fiona, Ingram, Mr Adam, Johnstone, Alex, Kane, Rosie, Leckie, Carolyn, Lochhead, Richard, MacAskill, Mr Kenny, MacDonald, Margo, Martin, Campbell, Marwick, Tricia, Mather, Jim, Maxwell, Mr Stewart, McFee, Mr Bruce, McGrigor, Mr Jamie, Mitchell, Margaret, Monteith, Mr Brian, Morgan, Alasdair, Mundell, David, Neil, Alex, Peattie, Cathy, Robison, Shona, Ruskell, Mr Mark, Scanlon, Mary, Scott, Eleanor, Scott, John, Sheridan, Tommy, Stevenson, Stewart, Sturgeon, Nicola, Swinburne, John, Welsh, Mr Andrew, White, Ms Sandra
Against: Alexander, Ms Wendy, Baillie, Jackie, Baker, Richard, Barrie, Scott, Boyack, Sarah, Brankin, Rhona, Brown, Robert, Butler, Bill, Chisholm, Malcolm, Craigie, Cathie, Curran, Ms Margaret, Deacon, Susan, Eadie, Helen, Ferguson, Patricia, Finnie, Ross, Gillon, Karen, Glen, Marlyn, Godman, Trish, Gorrie, Donald, Henry, Hugh, Home Robertson, Mr John, Hughes, Janis, Jackson, Dr Sylvia, Jackson, Gordon, Jamieson, Cathy, Jamieson, Margaret, Kerr, Mr Andy, Lamont, Johann, Lyon, George, Macdonald, Lewis, Macintosh, Mr Kenneth, Maclean, Kate, Macmillan, Maureen, Martin, Paul, May, Christine, McAveety, Mr Frank, McCabe, Mr Tom, McConnell, Mr Jack, McMahon, Michael, McNeil, Mr Duncan, McNeill, Pauline, McNulty, Des, Morrison, Mr Alasdair, Muldoon, Bristow, Mulligan, Mrs Mary, Munro, John Farquhar, Murray, Dr Elaine, Oldfather, Irene, Peacock, Peter, Pringle, Mike, Purvis, Jeremy, Radcliffe, Nora, Raffan, Mr Keith, Robson, Euan, Rumbles, Mike, Scott, Tavish, Smith, Elaine, Smith, Iain, Smith, Margaret, Stephen, Nicol, Stone, Mr Jamie, Wallace, Mr Jim, Watson, Mike, Whitefield, Karen, Wilson, Allan
As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
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The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
