We come to group 10, which is on dispute resolution. Amendment 42, in the name of Lord James Douglas-Hamilton, is grouped with amendments 44 and 45.

On the impartiality of dispute resolution, it seems important to have a procedure in which the persons involved in obtaining the resolution should not have been party directly or indirectly to the dispute at an earlier stage. Having firewalls is surely a sensible way of dealing with the issue and has the support of a number of charities in the field.

The issue is this: if a parent is in dispute with the education department over the services being delivered to his or her children, the dispute should be reviewed by personnel from another department of the local authority, at the very least. The impression was given at stage 1 that the position would be clarified at stage 2, but it appears that the system to be introduced is likely to be left to regulations that are not currently before us.

The important principle involved here is natural justice—namely that nobody is likely to be impartial in a dispute in which he or she is involved. Therefore, in the interests of fair play, it seems essential that resolution of a dispute should be undertaken by a party who is not beholden to or associated closely with one of the parties.

The principle of independence is important. A system that preserves the integrity of the party who brings about the resolution is essential, because, like Caesar's wife, he or she must be above suspicion.

I support the Executive's amendment 45, which clarifies parents' rights.

I move amendment 42.

At stage 2, I gave Lord James Douglas-Hamilton the commitment that I would consider in advance of stage 3 the wording of his amendment 230 regarding dispute resolution arrangements. Amendment 45 makes it explicit that those arrangements will not be compulsory, will be free of charge and cannot prejudice the rights of the parents or young person to make a referral to the tribunal.

I resist amendments 42 and 44, because it is unnecessary to have in the bill what they would provide for.

While the minister is talking about tribunals and before we vote on amendments 78 and 79, will he make it clear whether he is saying that people are allowed to have representatives with them at the tribunals and explain how that would work out?

Yes. I make that clear to the member—I thought that I had done so.

As I said before, the details of dispute resolution services are still being developed and will be set out in regulations in due course, as per section 17(2). Regulations will make clear the requirements on education authorities and how dispute resolution services should operate. Importantly, the code of practice will provide further practical guidance on that.

For those reasons I ask Lord James to withdraw amendment 42 and not to move amendment 44.

An important issue of principle is involved, which should be included in the bill. I do not think that issues of principle should be left to regulations. I will press amendment 42.

The question is, that amendment 42 be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members:

No.

I heard a no. There will be a division. [ Interruption. ] I said that I heard a no. There is a one-minute vote.

Division number 17

For: Adam, Brian, Aitken, Bill, Baird, Shiona, Ballance, Chris, Ballard, Mark, Brocklebank, Mr Ted, Byrne, Ms Rosemary, Canavan, Dennis, Crawford, Bruce, Cunningham, Roseanna, Curran, Frances, Davidson, Mr David, Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James, Ewing, Fergus, Ewing, Mrs Margaret, Fabiani, Linda, Fox, Colin, Fraser, Murdo, Gallie, Phil, Gibson, Rob, Goldie, Miss Annabel, Grahame, Christine, Harper, Robin, Hyslop, Fiona, Ingram, Mr Adam, Johnstone, Alex, Kane, Rosie, Lochhead, Richard, MacAskill, Mr Kenny, Martin, Campbell, Marwick, Tricia, Mather, Jim, Matheson, Michael, Maxwell, Mr Stewart, McFee, Mr Bruce, McGrigor, Mr Jamie, Milne, Mrs Nanette, Mitchell, Margaret, Monteith, Mr Brian, Mundell, David, Neil, Alex, Robison, Shona, Scanlon, Mary, Scott, Eleanor, Scott, John, Stevenson, Stewart, Sturgeon, Nicola, Swinburne, John, Swinney, Mr John, Tosh, Murray, Welsh, Mr Andrew
Against: Baillie, Jackie, Baker, Richard, Barrie, Scott, Boyack, Sarah, Brankin, Rhona, Brown, Robert, Butler, Bill, Chisholm, Malcolm, Craigie, Cathie, Curran, Ms Margaret, Deacon, Susan, Eadie, Helen, Ferguson, Patricia, Gillon, Karen, Glen, Marlyn, Gorrie, Donald, Henry, Hugh, Home Robertson, Mr John, Hughes, Janis, Jackson, Gordon, Jamieson, Cathy, Jamieson, Margaret, Kerr, Mr Andy, Lamont, Johann, Livingstone, Marilyn, Lyon, George, Macdonald, Lewis, Macintosh, Mr Kenneth, Maclean, Kate, Macmillan, Maureen, Martin, Paul, McAveety, Mr Frank, McCabe, Mr Tom, McMahon, Michael, McNeil, Mr Duncan, McNeill, Pauline, McNulty, Des, Morrison, Mr Alasdair, Muldoon, Bristow, Mulligan, Mrs Mary, Munro, John Farquhar, Murray, Dr Elaine, Oldfather, Irene, Peacock, Peter, Peattie, Cathy, Pringle, Mike, Purvis, Jeremy, Radcliffe, Nora, Robson, Euan, Scott, Tavish, Smith, Elaine, Smith, Iain, Smith, Margaret, Stephen, Nicol, Stone, Mr Jamie, Wallace, Mr Jim, Watson, Mike, Whitefield, Karen, Wilson, Allan

The result of the division is: For 51, Against 59, Abstentions 0.

Amendment 42 disagreed to.

Amendment 43 moved—[Euan Robson]—and agreed to.

Amendment 44 moved—[Lord James Douglas-Hamilton].

The question is, that amendment 44 be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members:

No.

I heard a no and a yes; therefore, there will be a division.

Division number 18

For: Adam, Brian, Aitken, Bill, Baird, Shiona, Ballance, Chris, Ballard, Mark, Brocklebank, Mr Ted, Byrne, Ms Rosemary, Canavan, Dennis, Crawford, Bruce, Cunningham, Roseanna, Curran, Frances, Davidson, Mr David, Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James, Ewing, Fergus, Ewing, Mrs Margaret, Fabiani, Linda, Fox, Colin, Fraser, Murdo, Gallie, Phil, Gibson, Rob, Goldie, Miss Annabel, Grahame, Christine, Harper, Robin, Hyslop, Fiona, Ingram, Mr Adam, Johnstone, Alex, Kane, Rosie, Lochhead, Richard, MacAskill, Mr Kenny, Martin, Campbell, Marwick, Tricia, Mather, Jim, Matheson, Michael, Maxwell, Mr Stewart, McFee, Mr Bruce, McGrigor, Mr Jamie, Milne, Mrs Nanette, Mitchell, Margaret, Monteith, Mr Brian, Mundell, David, Neil, Alex, Robison, Shona, Scanlon, Mary, Scott, Eleanor, Scott, John, Stevenson, Stewart, Sturgeon, Nicola, Swinburne, John, Swinney, Mr John, Tosh, Murray, Welsh, Mr Andrew
Against: Baillie, Jackie, Baker, Richard, Barrie, Scott, Boyack, Sarah, Brankin, Rhona, Brown, Robert, Butler, Bill, Chisholm, Malcolm, Craigie, Cathie, Curran, Ms Margaret, Deacon, Susan, Eadie, Helen, Ferguson, Patricia, Gillon, Karen, Glen, Marlyn, Gorrie, Donald, Henry, Hugh, Home Robertson, Mr John, Hughes, Janis, Jackson, Gordon, Jamieson, Cathy, Jamieson, Margaret, Kerr, Mr Andy, Lamont, Johann, Livingstone, Marilyn, Lyon, George, Macdonald, Lewis, Macintosh, Mr Kenneth, Maclean, Kate, Macmillan, Maureen, Martin, Paul, McAveety, Mr Frank, McCabe, Mr Tom, McMahon, Michael, McNeil, Mr Duncan, McNeill, Pauline, McNulty, Des, Morrison, Mr Alasdair, Muldoon, Bristow, Mulligan, Mrs Mary, Munro, John Farquhar, Murray, Dr Elaine, Oldfather, Irene, Peacock, Peter, Peattie, Cathy, Pringle, Mike, Purvis, Jeremy, Radcliffe, Nora, Robson, Euan, Scott, Tavish, Smith, Elaine, Smith, Iain, Smith, Margaret, Stephen, Nicol, Stone, Mr Jamie, Wallace, Mr Jim, Watson, Mike, Whitefield, Karen, Wilson, Allan

The result of the division is: For 51, Against 59, Abstentions 0.

Amendment 44 disagreed to.

[Amendment 45 moved—[Euan Robson]—and agreed to.]