– in the Scottish Parliament at 4:59 pm on 25 June 2003.
George Reid
None
4:59,
25 June 2003
The next item of business is consideration of business motion S2M-200, in the name of Patricia Ferguson, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a revised business programme.
Motion moved,
That the Parliament agrees—
(a) as a revision to the programme of business agreed on 19 June— Wednesday 25 June 2003 after, followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions insert, followed by SPCB Motion on Membership of the Scottish Commission for Public Audit Thursday 26 June 2003 9:30 am Landfill (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 2003 followed by Motion on Fireworks Bill - UK Legislation 2:30 pm Question Time 3:10 pm First Minister's Question Time followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Final Stage of Robin Rigg Offshore Wind Farm (Navigation and Fishing) (Scotland) Bill followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 5:00 pm Decision Time followed by Members' Business - debate on the subject of S2M-110 Irene Oldfather: Valuing Carers and (b) the following programme of business— Wednesday 3 September 2003 2:30 pm Time for Reflection followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Executive Business followed by Debate on Procedures Committee's Report on First Minister's Question Time followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 5:00 pm Decision Time followed by Members' Business Thursday 4 September 2003 9:30 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Executive Business 2:30 pm Question Time
Bruce Crawford
Scottish National Party
5:00,
25 June 2003
I make it plain that we do not oppose the motion on the basis of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body motion on membership of the Scottish Commission for Public Audit. The issue that I want to raise relates to a debate held at this morning's meeting of the Health Committee on the Food Supplements (Scotland) Regulations 2003 (SSI 2003/278). At the meeting, Shona Robison moved
"that nothing further be done" under the instrument. The motion was defeated by five votes to four, but there was good cross-party consensus among the four members opposed to the instrument.
The situation that we face is not the fault of the Health Committee.
Janis Hughes
Labour
Will the member give way?
Bruce Crawford
Scottish National Party
I do not think that I am allowed to take an Intervention.
George Reid
None
You may.
Janis Hughes
Labour
I am astonished to hear Mr Crawford oppose the business motion on the basis of something that happened at this morning's meeting of the Health Committee, at which I was present. Is Mr Crawford attempting to undermine a decision that was taken at that meeting? The motion that was before us to annul the statutory instrument was defeated by five votes to four—as can happen in any committee of the Parliament. Is the member attempting to undermine that process?
Bruce Crawford
Scottish National Party
It is clear that, like every committee of the Parliament, the chamber has a view on this matter, and it should be allowed to make that known.
It is no fault of the Health Committee that the construction of the original legislation ensured that the instrument could be brought before the Parliament only under the negative procedure. Had the affirmative procedure been used—as it was last week for the Water Industry (Scotland) Act 2002 (Consequential Provisions) Order 2003, which was discussed in the chamber for 45 minutes, and as it will be tomorrow for the Landfill
This is an important issue of considerable public interest. Our mailbags are becoming increasingly full with correspondence on the European food supplements directive. The chamber should discuss the matter, and we recommend that a debate be held on it. We oppose the motion on the basis that the Parliament has until 17 September to annul the instrument.
Tavish Scott
Liberal Democrat
5:03,
25 June 2003
Mr Crawford said that there was a good cross-party consensus on the Health Committee—presumably a good consensus in favour of the Executive, given that the motion was defeated by five votes to four.
It is unfortunate that the SNP opposes the business motion and calls for a debate simply because the decision that was taken in committee did not go its way. The Health Committee has considered the matter fully. I understand that there was a three-hour meeting this morning and that Mr McCabe answered questions on the instrument for between an hour and a half and two hours. It is extraordinary to say that there has been no scrutiny of the instrument.
If members of the Health Committee—or any member—had concerns about the food supplements directive, the committee was the most appropriate forum in which to raise those. It is usually most appropriate for subordinate legislation to be considered in committee. When that happens, it does not make sense to duplicate in the chamber work that has been done elsewhere. If that is not the position of the SNP, it is setting a new policy precedent—that all matters debated in committee should be referred to the full Parliament for further consideration. The Executive does not support that position, and I suggest that Parliament will not support it. In my view, it would imply criticism of the committee system and we would be seen openly to question the ability of the Health Committee to scrutinise subordinate legislation.
On that basis, I ask members to support the business motion.
George Reid
None
The question is, that motion S2M-200, in the name of Patricia Ferguson, be agreed to. Are we agreed?
George Reid
None
There will be a Division.
Division number 1
For: Alexander, Ms Wendy, Baillie, Jackie, Baker, Mr Richard, Barrie, Scott, Boyack, Sarah, Brankin, Rhona, Brown, Robert, Butler, Bill, Chisholm, Malcolm, Craigie, Cathie, Curran, Ms Margaret, Deacon, Susan, Eadie, Helen, Ferguson, Patricia, Gillon, Karen, Glen, Marlyn, Godman, Trish, Gorrie, Donald, Henry, Hugh, Home Robertson, Mr John, Hughes, Janis, Jackson, Dr Sylvia, Jackson, Gordon, Jamieson, Cathy, Jamieson, Margaret, Kerr, Mr Andy, Lamont, Johann, Livingstone, Marilyn, Lyon, George, Macdonald, Lewis, Macintosh, Mr Kenneth, Maclean, Kate, Macmillan, Maureen, Martin, Paul, May, Christine, McCabe, Mr Tom, McConnell, Mr Jack, McMahon, Michael, McNeil, Mr Duncan, McNeill, Pauline, McNulty, Des, Morrison, Mr Alasdair, Muldoon, Bristow, Mulligan, Mrs Mary, Munro, John Farquhar, Murray, Dr Elaine, Oldfather, Irene, Peacock, Peter, Peattie, Cathy, Pringle, Mike, Purvis, Jeremy, Radcliffe, Nora, Robson, Euan, Rumbles, Mike, Scott, Tavish, Smith, Elaine, Smith, Iain, Smith, Mrs Margaret, Stephen, Nicol, Stone, Mr Jamie, Swinburne, John, Wallace, Mr Jim, Watson, Mike, Whitefield, Karen, Wilson, Allan
Against: Adam, Brian, Aitken, Bill, Brocklebank, Mr Ted, Byrne, Ms Rosemary, Canavan, Dennis, Crawford, Bruce, Cunningham, Roseanna, Curran, Frances, Davidson, Mr David, Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James, Ewing, Fergus, Ewing, Mrs Margaret, Fabiani, Linda, Fergusson, Alex, Fox, Colin, Fraser, Murdo, Gallie, Phil, Gibson, Mr Rob, Goldie, Miss Annabel, Grahame, Christine, Harvie, Patrick, Hyslop, Fiona, Ingram, Mr Adam, Johnstone, Alex, Kane, Rosie, Lochhead, Richard, MacAskill, Mr Kenny, MacDonald, Margo, Martin, Campbell, Mather, Mr Jim, Matheson, Michael, Maxwell, Mr Stewart, McFee, Mr Bruce, McGrigor, Mr Jamie, Milne, Mrs Nanette, Mitchell, Margaret, Monteith, Mr Brian, Morgan, Alasdair, Mundell, David, Neil, Alex, Robison, Shona, Scanlon, Mary, Scott, John, Stevenson, Stewart, Sturgeon, Nicola, Swinney, Mr John, Tosh, Murray, Turner, Dr Jean, Welsh, Mr Andrew, White, Ms Sandra
George Reid
None
The result of the Division is: For 65, Against 50, Abstentions 0.
Motion agreed to.
That the Parliament agrees—
(a) as a revision to the programme of business agreed on 19 June— Wednesday 25 June 2003 after, followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions insert, followed by SPCB Motion on Membership of the Scottish Commission for Public Audit Thursday 26 June 2003 9:30 am Landfill (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 2003 followed by Motion on Fireworks Bill - UK Legislation 2:30 pm Question Time 3:10 pm First Minister's Question Time
Question Time is an opportunity for MPs and Members of the House of Lords to ask Government Ministers questions. These questions are asked in the Chamber itself and are known as Oral Questions. Members may also put down Written Questions. In the House of Commons, Question Time takes place for an hour on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays after Prayers. The different Government Departments answer questions according to a rota and the questions asked must relate to the responsibilities of the Government Department concerned. In the House of Lords up to four questions may be asked of the Government at the beginning of each day's business. They are known as 'starred questions' because they are marked with a star on the Order Paper. Questions may also be asked at the end of each day's business and these may include a short debate. They are known as 'unstarred questions' and are less frequent. Questions in both Houses must be written down in advance and put on the agenda and both Houses have methods for selecting the questions that will be asked. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P1 at the UK Parliament site.
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An intervention is when the MP making a speech is interrupted by another MP and asked to 'give way' to allow the other MP to intervene on the speech to ask a question or comment on what has just been said.
The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
