Firefighters' Dispute

Question Time – in the Scottish Parliament at 2:30 pm on 6 February 2003.

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Photo of Dennis Canavan Dennis Canavan Independent 2:30, 6 February 2003

To ask the Scottish Executive what action it is taking to facilitate a solution to the firefighters' dispute. (S1O-6384)

Photo of Jim Wallace Jim Wallace Liberal Democrat

It is very encouraging that agreement has been reached on the resumption of talks next week between the employers and the Fire Brigades Union under the auspices of the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service. We all want those talks to result in a settlement that is fair for the firefighters and for the public.

Photo of Dennis Canavan Dennis Canavan Independent

Will the minister make it clear that the Scottish Executive will make additional resources available for a fair pay settlement, so that meaningful negotiations can take place? Will he clarify the Executive's position on John Prescott's threat to impose a settlement by emergency legislation? Is the Scottish Executive opposed in principle to such a suggestion, or is it simply saying that there is not sufficient time for such legislation to be passed before the Parliament is dissolved at the end of next month?

Photo of Jim Wallace Jim Wallace Liberal Democrat

I gave a clear indication of the Executive's view when I made a statement to the Parliament last week. It is important to recognise that, since then, the Deputy Prime Minister, John Prescott, has said that, if negotiations between the parties were to get under way, it would not be necessary immediately to address at Westminster the kind of reserved powers that he spoke about in his statement last week.

There has been an issue about the funding of a possible interim pay gap. We would be prepared to consider that it might be necessary to provide a small amount of transitional funding over the next two years in order to achieve savings in the years beyond. That would be subject to a satisfactory pay agreement and adequate provision for implementing and auditing the modernisation process.

It is important to recognise that the Executive has increased the grant-aided expenditure for the fire service from £187 million in 2000-01 to £238 million in the next financial year—an increase of 25 per cent. With regard to capital, there has been an increase from £15.6 million to £24 million over the same period—an increase of 53 per cent. That is the work of an Executive that is committed to the fire service in Scotland.

Photo of Alex Neil Alex Neil Scottish National Party

We would all welcome an end to the dispute on a mutually agreed basis. However, from the answer that the minister has just given, I ask that two points be clarified. First, if the dispute is resolved, will that mean that there is no intention to pass the legislation that the Deputy Prime Minister indicated that he wanted? Secondly, if the dispute is not resolved in the immediate future, what is the cut-off date by which a resolution must be reached before the Government abandons any idea of emergency legislation?

Photo of Jim Wallace Jim Wallace Liberal Democrat

The member's colleagues in Westminster should perhaps address that question to the Deputy Prime Minister. It is not for me to make statements of intent as to what legislation might or might not be introduced at Westminster. I indicated last week that, because of the nature of the legislative process in the Scottish Parliament, consultation and consideration must precede any legislation that is made here.

Photo of Tom McCabe Tom McCabe Labour

Will the minister provide an assurance that discussions on the recent consultation document on the future of the fire service in Scotland will involve all stakeholders, especially local government and the fire service union?

Photo of Jim Wallace Jim Wallace Liberal Democrat

I confirm for Mr McCabe that, in the preparation of that document, there was considerable consultation. I am also happy to give an assurance that we intend to have discussions with stakeholders, including the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and the unions through the Scottish Trades Union Congress. Arrangements are in hand to have a meeting as soon as possible.