Section 3 — Money advice

Part of Debt Arrangement and Attachment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3 – in the Scottish Parliament at 3:15 pm on 13 November 2002.

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Photo of Donald Gorrie Donald Gorrie Liberal Democrat 3:15, 13 November 2002

I will speak in favour of amendment 34. Robert Brown is offering choice, not compulsion of any sort. The amendment would give the debtor the choice of going either to an in-house council debt advisory place or to an independent place such as a citizens advice bureau. Choice is a good thing.

The issue is not about in-house council money advisers not being independent; it is about the fact that they might not be seen as independent. The public have a great suspicion of public bodies and their employees. A lot of people who are in debt think that they will not get neutral advice from council advisers, who—it is thought—will naturally put debts to the council, which almost always figure among the debts, at the top of the queue for repayment. The issue is public perception.

Having been in councils for 26 years, I strongly support councils being given as much scope as possible. However, if ministers and the Parliament want independent debt advice to be given, councils should supply money to independent advisers though grants, as well as supplying in-house advice.

I have put questions to ministers on the issue of independence and their answers on the subject have, as usual, been rather unsatisfactory. I also had a short exchange of views with the Minister for Social Justice, Margaret Curran, on how much of the local government money that is given by the Executive went to debt services. She has kindly written to me to point out that half of the new jobs created are in local authorities—half is a reasonable figure—but that three quarters of the money went to local councils, which gave away only a quarter of the money to CABx and other advice providers. Three quarters of the money produced only half the jobs—we should think about that.

For a whole lot of reasons, members should support amendment 34. It is not anti-local government, but pro-choice. It would give local voluntary organisations, as well as the councils, a fair do and it would help the debtor, which is what I thought the bill was all about.