Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3 – in the Scottish Parliament at 5:45 pm on 13 February 2002.
George Reid
Scottish National Party
5:45,
13 February 2002
Amendment 91 is grouped with amendment 92.
Bristow Muldoon
Labour
Before I speak to the Amendment, I should point out that, contrary to previous indications, I will respond to the debate. I think that we indicated earlier that Tricia Marwick would do so.
In lodging amendment 91, I have not been motivated by distrust of the Executive enacting the bill in due course; I simply want to set a date to ensure that there is a defined point at which the bill becomes law. The date of 1 August 2002 was chosen because the supporters of the bill wish to see an end to the various practices that will be banned as a result of the bill before the commencement of the next hunting season, and the training of new dogs in preparation for it. I understand that the Executive would prefer more flexibility on the matter, so I am interested in the Minister's response to amendment 91. I repeat that my primary motivation, and that of the bill's supporters, is to see the provisions of the bill come into force before the next hunting season commences, and I ask the minister to address that specific point.
I move amendment 91.
Ross Finnie
Liberal Democrat
I think that I will be brief, Presiding Officer.
I can respond to Bristow Muldoon's point positively. As with any legislation, it would be helpful to have a degree of flexibility, and—
George Reid
Scottish National Party
I am sorry, Minister. We have until 6.13 pm.
Ross Finnie
Liberal Democrat
That is quite all right, Presiding Officer. My point is fairly brief.
We are quite content to give the undertaking that, if we are given a degree of flexibility and if the bill is passed, we will bring its provisions into force before the next hunting season commences.
David Mundell
Conservative
I was in attendance at the meeting of the Rural Development Committee at which commencement was considered. We had an interesting final debate because, of course, no one appeared on behalf of the sponsors of the bill. A menu of possible dates was discussed, but the deputy Minister indicated that the provision in the bill as drafted would be the best way forward. On the basis of what has emerged today, that must be the case.
I will take Patricia Ferguson up on her offer and find the person who can explain to us at this point—it is almost 6 o'clock—exactly what is in the bill and what is out of it. The position will be as confusing for weeks and months ahead, until the necessary legal briefs are prepared and the police, the courts and everyone else are briefed. Therefore, I am glad that the minister retains the view that was expressed at the Rural Development Committee—on this matter, I have confidence in him and in the fact that he will not bring the provisions of the bill into force until those necessary steps have been taken.
George Reid
Scottish National Party
Does Bristow Muldoon have the agreement of the chamber to withdraw Amendment 91?
George Reid
Scottish National Party
In that case, the question is, that Amendment 91 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
George Reid
Scottish National Party
There will be a Division.
Scott Barrie
Labour
On a point of order, Presiding Officer—
George Reid
Scottish National Party
Mr Barrie may not raise a point of order during a vote.
Scott Barrie
Labour
The lights on the consoles have gone out.
George Reid
Scottish National Party
We have a little bit of a problem. I ask members to allow me to consult the clerks. [Interruption.] We have a bit of a technical problem. We will make a fresh start and take that vote again.
The question is, that Amendment 91 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Division number 52
For: Adam, Brian, Campbell, Colin, Canavan, Dennis, Cunningham, Roseanna, Ewing, Dr Winnie, Fabiani, Linda, Gibson, Mr Kenneth, Hyslop, Fiona, Ingram, Mr Adam, Lochhead, Richard, MacAskill, Mr Kenny, MacDonald, Ms Margo, Marwick, Tricia, Matheson, Michael, McAllion, Mr John, McGugan, Irene, McLeod, Fiona, Neil, Alex, Paterson, Mr Gil, Robison, Shona, Sheridan, Tommy, Smith, Elaine, Stevenson, Stewart, Sturgeon, Nicola, Ullrich, Kay, Welsh, Mr Andrew, Young, John
Against: Aitken, Bill, Alexander, Ms Wendy, Baillie, Jackie, Barrie, Scott, Boyack, Sarah, Brankin, Rhona, Brown, Robert, Butler, Bill, Chisholm, Malcolm, Craigie, Cathie, Crawford, Bruce, Curran, Ms Margaret, Davidson, Mr David, Deacon, Susan, Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James, Ewing, Fergus, Ewing, Mrs Margaret, Ferguson, Patricia, Fergusson, Alex, Finnie, Ross, Fitzpatrick, Brian, Fraser, Murdo, Gallie, Phil, Gillon, Karen, Godman, Trish, Goldie, Miss Annabel, Gorrie, Donald, Grahame, Christine, Grant, Rhoda, Gray, Iain, Hamilton, Mr Duncan, Harding, Mr Keith, Harper, Robin, Henry, Hugh, Home Robertson, Mr John, Hughes, Janis, Jackson, Dr Sylvia, Jackson, Gordon, Jamieson, Cathy, Jamieson, Margaret, Jenkins, Ian, Johnstone, Alex, Kerr, Mr Andy, Lamont, Johann, Livingstone, Marilyn, Lyon, George, Macdonald, Lewis, Macintosh, Mr Kenneth, MacKay, Angus, Maclean, Kate, Macmillan, Maureen, Martin, Paul, McAveety, Mr Frank, McCabe, Mr Tom, McConnell, Mr Jack, McGrigor, Mr Jamie, McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay, McLeish, Henry, McLetchie, David, McMahon, Mr Michael, McNeil, Mr Duncan, McNeill, Pauline, McNulty, Des, Monteith, Mr Brian, Morgan, Alasdair, Morrison, Mr Alasdair, Muldoon, Bristow, Mulligan, Mrs Mary, Mundell, David, Munro, John Farquhar, Murray, Dr Elaine, Oldfather, Irene, Peacock, Peter, Peattie, Cathy, Quinan, Mr Lloyd, Radcliffe, Nora, Raffan, Mr Keith, Robson, Euan, Rumbles, Mr Mike, Scanlon, Mary, Scott, John, Scott, Tavish, Simpson, Dr Richard, Smith, Iain, Smith, Mrs Margaret, Stephen, Nicol, Stone, Mr Jamie, Swinney, Mr John, Thomson, Elaine, Wallace, Ben, Wallace, Mr Jim, Watson, Mike, Whitefield, Karen, Wilson, Allan, Wilson, Andrew
Abstentions: Tosh, Mr Murray
George Reid
Scottish National Party
That ends consideration of amendments.
As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
Ministers make up the Government and almost all are members of the House of Lords or the House of Commons. There are three main types of Minister. Departmental Ministers are in charge of Government Departments. The Government is divided into different Departments which have responsibilities for different areas. For example the Treasury is in charge of Government spending. Departmental Ministers in the Cabinet are generally called 'Secretary of State' but some have special titles such as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Ministers of State and Junior Ministers assist the ministers in charge of the department. They normally have responsibility for a particular area within the department and are sometimes given a title that reflects this - for example Minister of Transport.
As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
