Group 5 is next. The fifth group relates to the strategy of the Office of Environmental Governance Wales. The lead Amendment is amendment 27. Janet Finch-Saunders to move the amendment. 

Amendment 27 (Janet Finch-Saunders) moved.

Thank you. I move Amendment 27 in my name. Amendment 27 ensures there must be engagement with counterpart environmental governance bodies in relation to matters connected to its functions that fall outside devolved provision. This will ensure that there is more effective management. Amendments 28 and 29 add the Drinking Water Inspectorate and the Water Services Regulation Authority to ensure that there is no overlap with their functions and the functions of the OEGW. 

[Inaudible.]—Amendment 27. I would also like to provide my support for amendment 34 in the name of Joyce, which is in this group. Amendment 34 would require the OEGW to set out its strategy for how it intends to work with the CCC. That is similar to an amendment that was tabled at Stage 2, and I'm supportive of that. While the OEGW will be working with a large number of bodies—. I see the Llywydd—. Do you want me to continue? While the OEGW will be working with a large number of bodies, this amendment would offer clarity and will improve accountability regarding the relationship with this crucial body. It will also help the OEGW to have this collaborative arrangement, so I am supportive of that amendment.

Joyce Watson.

Diolch, Llywydd. I am going to move the Amendment in my name. It requires the Office of Environmental Governance Wales to set out its strategy on how it will exercise its function in a way that avoids overlap with the functions of the UK Government on climate change. Schedule 2 to the Bill includes provision for the content and procedural requirements of the strategy that the OEGW is required to prepare and publish under section 11. The strategy will outline how the OEGW will fulfil its statutory duties without overlapping with the roles of other oversight bodies. The amendment adds the UK Committee on Climate Change to the list of bodies in relation to which the OEGW strategy must set out how it will avoid overlapping functions.

I'd like to thank the Deputy First Minister for listening to stakeholders after Stage 2, and for working with us to develop a suitable amendment to ensure that the Bill expressly requires the OEGW to avoid overlap with the UK CCC specifically, given the potential overlap in functions, albeit quite limited. 

The Cabinet Secretary, Huw Irranca-Davies.

Diolch, Llywydd. If I can turn, first of all, to Amendment 27 in the name of Janet Finch-Saunders, this is, again, similar to an amendment that was tabled, debated and then rejected at Stage 2, but I'll explain why—our reasoning. The OEGW can rely on its supplementary powers to enter into any agreements with relevant bodies that it considers necessary, such as investigations into areas of common concern that apply in relation to Wales. Putting an express requirement of this nature within the Bill will likely, just to be clear, require the consent of UK Ministers. Now, this has sometimes happened, but it’s in no way guaranteed. In that respect, I do not consider it necessary or desirable to seek consent for a provision that wouldn’t improve the effectiveness of the OEGW, and could, indeed, impact, just to be clear, the Bill’s timely passage through this Senedd, as we sit in deliberation here at this time. 

The interim environmental protection assessor for Wales, the interim body, already has a memorandum of understanding with the Office for Environmental Protection and Environmental Standards Scotland, the England and Scotland counterparts, and a very good working relationship. This is really effective, and the IEPAW isn't even yet a statutory body, so it just shows why this provision isn't actually needed as well. 

If I turn to amendment 34 in the name of Joyce Watson, Joyce, my thanks for moving this, but also for the way this has been brought forward collaboratively with the ENGOs and stakeholders, and working with my officials. It's after that listening to ENGOs and committee members further on the matter after Stage 2 that we believe that adding the UK Climate Change Committee to the list in paragraph 1(1)(e) of Schedule 2 would provide greater clarity, and ensure that the OEGW will be required to set out how it will avoid what we believe, by the way, will be limited overlaps—how it will avoid those overlaps between the OEGW and the UK CCC. So, we'll be supporting that amendment, and I would urge Members to do so. 

If I can turn to amendments 28 and 29 in Janet's name, in response to those amendments we believe there is limited overlap, to be frank, between the functions of the OEGW, the Drinking Water Inspectorate and the Office of Water Services. However, I have previously agreed with this principle of requiring the OEGW to articulate in its strategy how it intends to exercise its functions in a way that does not overlap with the functions of any organisation, not just those listed specifically. This is reflected in paragraph 1(1)(e)(vi) of Schedule 2, which we inserted during Stage 2 proceedings in response to some of these discussions. This gives sufficient scope and clarity, and requires the OEGW to articulate in its strategy how it will seek to avoid overlap with public authorities, but based on its own independent expertise and its independent professional judgment, which is something that committee members stressed they wanted repeatedly.

If I turn to amendment 30 in Janet's name, I don’t consider that further amendment to the Bill in this way is needed or appropriate. This approach has not been taken in other similar Acts, and the extent to which the OEGW consults the public on its strategy is a matter for the OEGW as an independent body, albeit guided by the same public law principles applying to all public bodies when exercising their functions.

Janet Finch-Saunders to respond.

Diolch, Cabinet Secretary, and thank you for those explanations. I, therefore, am going to withdraw 27, 28, 29 and 30.

Okay, so, 27 is the main Amendment. It's not being pressed to a vote, unless anybody wishes to do so. I see nobody wanting to do that, so consider it not voted upon.

Amendment 27 withdrawn in accordance with Standing Order 12.27.

Joyce Watson, Amendment 34.

Thirty-four. Is it being moved?

Amendment 34 (Joyce Watson, supported by Delyth Jewell) moved.

Move.

Yes, it is.

The question is that Amendment 34 be agreed to. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there is objection. So, we'll proceed to a vote on amendment 34. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 46, no abstentions and two against. Amendment 34 is agreed.

Amendment 34: For: 46, Against: 2, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been agreed

Amendment 28, I think, isn't being moved by Janet Finch Saunders—no?

Sorry. What number?

Twenty eight.

No, that's withdrawn.

It's not being moved.

Amendment 28 (Janet Finch-Saunders) not moved.

Amendment 29.  Is that being moved, Janet Finch-Saunders? I think you said 'no'.

It's withdrawn, and 30 is withdrawn.

Amendment 29 (Janet Finch-Saunders) not moved.

And 30 is also not being moved.

Amendment 30 (Janet Finch-Saunders) not moved.

That's the end of group 5, therefore.