We will begin with group 1. The first group of amendments relates to environmental principles and integrating environmental protection under Part 1 of the Bill. The lead Amendment in the group is amendment 9. I call on Janet Finch-Saunders to move the lead amendment.

Amendment 9 (Janet Finch-Saunders) moved.

Diolch, Llywydd. Group 1 relates to the environmental principles, as has been said. The amendments we’re putting forward today, 9 and 10, insert additional environmental principles into section 2 of the Bill, the precise meaning of these principles and how they relate to existing principles in section 2 of the Bill. I must say, at this stage, that I’d like to thank our lawyers; our researchers, Ella Tregaskes and Jena Quilter; the climate change committee; and the Minister himself, because we’ve actually worked, haven't we, throughout each stage.

Dr Victoria Jenkins summed up what most of us believe, and I agree with the Countryside Alliance that there would be merit in including these proposed principles in the Bill, as they will ensure that we will leave the environment in a better place than when we found it, recognising the interconnectedness of areas such as water catchment areas, wildlife corridors and the marine environment.

Amendment 11 will ensure that the Welsh Ministers review the section 6 statement at least once every two years. While the environmental principles are already well recognised internationally, it is the statement that will determine their meaning and how that will be applied in a Welsh context. Currently, I know there’s support from the Minister to go for five years. That is longer than the new Senedd terms of four years, and I think, really, that this Bill is so delayed, and we’ve seen so many species go into decline here in Wales, that, actually, now we need to make sure that any legislation we pass here is fit for purpose, and the only way you can do that is by holding your reviews every two years. Diolch.

The Cabinet Secretary to reply—Huw Irranca-Davies.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd, and thank you, Janet, for moving this. As we open today's Stage 3 proceedings on the Environment (Principles, Governance and Biodiversity Targets) (Wales) Bill, I just want to also express my sincere thanks to all those who’ve brought us to this point, including Members, but also the Senedd committees for their very thoughtful, rigorous scrutiny, and stakeholders across Wales—the environmental groups, the public bodies, the academics and community organisations—who have engaged with such commitment and candour throughout the process. Also, just a word for my small team of officials, who’ve worked not just with me, but through me, in engaging with Members of the Senedd across parties as well.

The strength of this Bill is that it is a product of that collaboration; the constructive cross-party engagement that has supported its development is testament to a shared recognition that protecting the environment is a matter of our collective responsibility. The amendments made to date by both Government and committee members reflect this, and they’ve led to a more robust, more coherent and, ultimately, more effective Bill; that’s what scrutiny is about. This Bill represents the Senedd at its best, working together to strengthen the future that we’re building for Wales.

I know, Janet, and I appreciate, that this legislation has been long anticipated, but I can assure you that the time has not been wasted. We have significantly benefited from learning how environmental protection and governance arrangements have evolved elsewhere in the UK and, indeed, internationally. We’ve seen what has worked well and where challenges have emerged. This has enabled us to design a model that is not simply comparable to counterparts in the UK, but is, actually, in many respects, stronger, and one that reflects the distinct needs of Wales and our unique policy and legislative landscape.

This Bill provides us with a real opportunity for a step change, establishing an environmental objective that is focused on a high level of environmental protection and improvement of the environment; four core environmental principles and duties to integrate environmental protection; an independent environmental governance body with authority, expertise and teeth; and a framework empowering Welsh Ministers to set targets in secondary legislation to contribute to halting and reversing biodiversity loss. As a whole, it gives us the framework to respond to the nature and climate emergencies we face today, but also to challenges that will impact future generations.

But I just want to be clear that we can only realise these opportunities if the Bill passes and if it passes in a form that's deliverable. The effective implementation requires legislation that is clear, workable, and grounded in the practical realities of the systems and institutions it creates. The Bill before all of us today has been strengthened with that in mind. It's ambitious, yes, but it's also achievable. And it's through that combination of ambition and deliverability that we will deliver the change that we need.

As we move through today’s amendments, I really look forward to continuing that collaborative spirit that has brought us this far. Because we have an opportunity here in front of us. In that spirit, can I thank Members in advance for their amendments that we're debating and the opportunity to set out this Government’s position on them? There will be amendments this evening that I look forward to supporting, in that collaborative spirit. There are others where I will explain why we cannot, but, I always hope, in a constructive and meaningful way.

Let me turn to the amendments in this group in Janet's name: Amendment 9 and amendment 10. Just to note, these amendments were, indeed, tabled and discussed at Stage 2 and they were rejected at that point. I don’t support these amendments because of the same reasons, which I'll lay out now for the whole Senedd Chamber. They were, indeed, discussed and rejected at an earlier stage, Stage 2, where I explained that the four environmental principles in the Bill and the duty to integrate environmental protection are based on concepts that have developed over decades, including through international agreements, and EU and domestic legislation. They are very well developed and very clearly understood. But in addition, we've placed the stronger special regard duty on the Welsh Ministers and Natural Resources Wales on the basis of these well-understood and developed set of principles—special regard; it goes beyond what is in other pieces of legislation. 

Adding further, less developed principles into this list risks significant uncertainty and even barriers towards effective delivery. The environmental principles and the integration duty presented in the Bill are supported—I've got to make clear—by a wide range of stakeholders and a case for additional principles has not been made throughout our engagement with those stakeholders. Furthermore, relevant aspects of these principles are actually already captured, to differing extents, and, I would say, to a more effective and appropriate degree, within the environmental objective and the duty to integrate environmental protection.

I can give you an example. Non-regression is generally interpreted to require that there should not be a roll back on environmental standards. The environmental objective, however, aims the duties in Part 1 at the attainment of a high level of environmental protection and an improvement of the environment. This goes beyond non-regression, in terms of preventing any lowering of ambition, and it focuses on contributing to a high level of environmental protection and actual improvement to the environment. I consider these amendments could be highly detrimental to the policy outcomes sought. In addition, the intended effect of amendment 9 is not entirely clear as to whether the Member proposes that the net-gain principle should be included in addition to the three principles set out in amendment 10, or something else. For these reasons, I do not support these amendments.

If I turn to amendments 11, 12 and 13, and certainly amendment 11, a similar amendment was tabled and rejected at an earlier committee stage. During Stage 2, I tabled an amendment, which was accepted, that requires Welsh Ministers to review the statement after each General Election. The Welsh Ministers may also review the statement at any other time. This reflected, indeed, recommendation 7 of the Climate Change, Environment and Infrastructure Committee Stage 1 report, so that's what we've done. This is proportionate, we believe, with the nature of the statement, which is intended to be enduring and strategic, covering a wide range of cases.

I don’t consider it desirable to require a statement of this nature to be reviewed as frequently as every two years, as proposed by amendment 11. The review will take account of relevant considerations, including wider policy changes, technological and scientific developments, and they are unlikely to change substantially over a period of two years. In the event that circumstances mean that it is appropriate to review the statement more than once in a Senedd term, then, as I explained, the Bill provides appropriate flexibility to do so. That mandatory two-year cycle could, Janet, lead to real bureaucratic burdens without providing any substantive positive effect. So, I don't support amendments 11, 12 or 13 on that basis, which are consequential on this amendment, but I hope I've explained why.  

Janet Finch-Saunders to respond.

Diolch, Llywydd. I'll just say that recently I attended a technical briefing from your officials, and they actually admitted that they were way behind where they should be in terms of this agenda. That made me even more steadfast that we really do need to nail your feet to the floor on this, because we do not know what new Governments may be here who are not enthused by looking after the environment. Anyway, I'll respect your views on this, but let's move to the vote on it.

The question is that Amendment 9 be agreed to. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There is objection. We will therefore move to a vote on amendment 9. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 11, no abstentions, 37 against. Therefore, amendment 9 is not agreed.

Amendment 9: For: 11, Against: 37, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been rejected

Is Amendment 10 being moved, Janet Finch-Saunders?

Amendment 10 (Janet Finch-Saunders) moved.

The question is that Amendment 10 be agreed to. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there are objections. We will therefore move to a vote on amendment 10. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 10, no abstentions, 38 against. Therefore, amendment 10 is not agreed.

Amendment 10: For: 10, Against: 38, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been rejected

Amendment 11. Is it being moved?

Amendment 11 (Janet Finch-Saunders) moved.

The question is that Amendment 11 be agreed to. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there are objections. We will therefore open the vote on amendment 11. Close the vote. In favour 11, no abstentions, 37 against. Therefore, amendment 11 is not agreed.

Amendment 11: For: 11, Against: 37, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been rejected

Amendment 12. Is it being moved?

Amendment 12 (Janet Finch-Saunders) moved.

Move.

It is moved. Are there any objections? [Objection.] There are. We will therefore vote on Amendment 12. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 10, no abstentions, 38 against. Amendment 12 is not agreed.

Amendment 12: For: 10, Against: 38, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been rejected

Amendment 13. Is it being moved?

Amendment 13 (Janet Finch-Saunders) moved.

Move.

It is moved. Are there any objections? [Objection.] There are. Open the vote on Amendment 13. Close the vote. In favour 10, no abstentions, 38 against. Amendment 13 is not agreed.

Amendment 13: For: 10, Against: 38, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been rejected