Family Drug and Alcohol Courts

2. Questions to the Counsel General and Minister for Delivery – in the Senedd at on 21 January 2025.

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Photo of James Evans James Evans Conservative

(Translated)

1. What support does the Welsh Government provide for family drug and alcohol courts? OQ62147

Photo of Rhys ab Owen Rhys ab Owen Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

6. Will the Counsel General provide an update on the evaluation of the family dug and alcohol court pilot? OQ62133

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:22, 21 January 2025

Thank you. Llywydd, I understand you've given permission for questions 1 and 6 to be grouped. Thank you.

The Welsh Government provided £450,000 for the two-year Wales family drug and alcohol court pilot, which concluded in November 2023. Following publication of the independent evaluation of the pilot in July 2024, a working group with representation from key partners has been established to advise on next steps.

Photo of James Evans James Evans Conservative 2:23, 21 January 2025

Thank you, Counsel General, for your answer. As you just highlighted, £450,000 was provided to family drug and alcohol courts across Wales. The evaluation that was conducted by CASCADE at Cardiff University indicated positive outcomes, suggesting that FDACs are feasible and beneficial alternatives to standard care proceedings, and I know I heard first-hand, when I was on the Children, Young People and Education Committee, about the good work that FDACs do in those care proceedings. So, given those findings, could you provide some update to the Senedd on what the Welsh Government's financial future is for funding and sustaining FDACs across Wales, and, potentially, could we roll them out across the rest of the country other than the pilot that was held in Cardiff and the Vale? And I'm just wondering how the CASCADE evaluation has helped to inform future policy decisions around the family drug and alcohol court model.

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:24, 21 January 2025

Thank you very much, James. I'll just start by saying how pleased we are that we did manage to pilot the family drug and alcohol court programme to test and report in Wales, and I just wanted to pay tribute once again to the families who took the brave step of engaging in the programme and the hard work and professionalism of all of those involved in the pilot. And then, as you rightly say, we discussed the evaluation of the pilot by CASCADE with the local family justice board. We discussed that last autumn and at the family justice network in December, alongside meetings with representatives of Welsh heads of children's services in local authorities.

As a result of all of those things, including the evaluation, it was recommended that we set up a working group with representation from across key partners. The group will provide a lead in helping shape next steps in a sustainable and cost-effective way, underpinned by a shared commitment to achieve the best outcomes. The first meeting of that group, which is being set up as a result of a series of things that have happened since the CASCADE report came out, is due to take place this month and will report back by the end of the summer. So, by the end of the summer we will know about scalability options for the FDAC in Wales, we will consider future funding, how the problem-solving approach adopted in the pilot could be applied more widely in family courts in Wales, and how the FDAC fits with wider services that provide integrated support for families around drug and alcohol misuse issues, for example. 

So, I'm very pleased that we have that process in place. We are very concerned as well to look at scalability. So, this is about having a number of families who are able to take part in that and to be able to put the support services around them to enable that. And I don't think that's a small thing; that's not something that people can do without that support. So, a process needs to be gone through to be able to do that, but I'm pleased that that process is in place. It's done in a very consensual way with a fundamental understanding that we would like to do it if it's possible to do it in a way that's helpful, and I'll report back to the Senedd as we get more information. 

Photo of Rhys ab Owen Rhys ab Owen Plaid Cymru 2:26, 21 January 2025

I'm slightly disappointed by your answer, Cwnsler Cyffredinol, because you told me on 1 October that you would respond to the evaluation of CASCADE by Christmas or earlier. Now it seems to have been pushed over to the summer. You'll be aware of the Senedd's Children, Young People and Education Committee's report, published in May 2023, and it recommended the implementation of a family, drug and alcohol court. Julie Morgan, who was then Deputy Minister, said that she was absolutely convinced of the value of the problem-solving family court model. That was Welsh Government back in May 2023. The CASCADE evaluation was published in January 2024, a year ago. The analysis concludes that the court costs £18,000 but produces an average direct benefit of over £74,000 per case. 

Now, you heard me on the last occasion quoting a family circuit judge at the problem-solving court saying how beneficial the court was to families and to children. Keeping children out of care is so important and we're not doing enough at the moment here in Wales. So, when do you hope we will re-establish the family, drug and alcohol court here in Wales and open others in other areas in Wales? Diolch yn fawr. 

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:27, 21 January 2025

Diolch, Rhys, and just to be really clear what we're doing here, the CASCADE evaluation was very good but we have a series of things to go through afterwards. So, I did say that I would come back to you, and it's only just after Christmas at the moment, and I'm very pleased that, as a result of all of those conversations, we have set up—. The consensus was with the stakeholders that we set up this working group and that that group will report back by the summer. So, we've done that. So, it's moving forward. The result is that they wanted to have this working group to look into how we might scale it up and what the issues are that I just discussed in answering James. I'm really very keen to make sure that we let the working group do its work now and it considers the impact of the pilot. 

You're right about the impact of the pilot. I like the idea of the problem-solving courts. I had the real privilege of meeting with the Lady Chief Justice last week in London in the Royal Courts of Justice, and we discussed problem-solving courts more generally. So, it's a good opportunity to do that. But we do know that we have to make sure that we have a system in place that supports the families that are in that system, and I'm very specifically concerned that we have scalability right. So, there will not be the critical mass of families necessary to be able to sustain that court system the way the courts are configured at the moment. 

So, there is a piece of work to do to make sure that it will work, that it is cost-effective and it does free-up resources to support earlier preventative work with families, because that's the idea. The idea is to make sure that this feeds backwards into the system and, as you rightly say, supports families to stay together in a much more constructive way. So, we're strongly committed to supporting families in that way, specifically experiencing substance misuse issues. We're very much recognising the increasing demand in support for those families, so we have invested further in those services, but it needs to be seen as a single piece. 

So, I don't regard it as a step back, actually; I regard it as a step forward. I think there was a real consensus that the group needed to do its work, and they are committed to reporting back to us by the summer. 

Photo of Jane Dodds Jane Dodds Liberal Democrat 2:30, 21 January 2025

Good afternoon, Minister. I think part of our role here is to bring pressure on you as Ministers, and also to share our experiences before we came to this wonderful place. So, I would like to thank James, and Rhys as well, for continuing to raise this. And all I can talk about are my experiences as a child protection social worker, working with FDACs in England, where there is a proven track record of how they keep children out of care and keep families together. I am slightly stunned that we are not learning from England, and we are not looking at the outcomes there and accelerating this really quickly, because we have families right now who are desperate to be kept together, through a system that I myself have seen working.

So, I wonder if I could really pin you down. The summer could start in March, if we’re lucky, or the summer could go on until October. Could you really be a bit more specific, or perhaps write to us and give us some really clear timescales of when we might be able to see a very clear implementation plan for the FDAC going forward, which has a month at least, rather than 'the summer'? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:31, 21 January 2025

Thank you very much, Jane. Just to shed light on where we are, the initial roll-out of FDACs in England was taken forward around the same time—which was between 2010 and 2014—as we rolled out the integrated family support services early intervention programme for families in Wales. So, there were parallel streams there. At the moment, the FDAC indicates that, around the UK, there are 13 FDAC specialist teams, working in 19 courts and serving families in 35 local authorities. So, it isn’t widespread in England either yet. So, there is an element of piloting.

One of the issues absolutely is about what sort of critical mass of population you need to sustain this service, and what happens in rural areas where there isn’t that critical mass. Is there some way of making sure that the FDAC can work in areas where you wouldn’t be able to sustain that because of the way that the finances work, because this is an intensive intervention programme? So, we do need to do this piece of work.

I understand your point about 'the summer'. Government seasons are quite flexible, I’ve discovered since I’ve been in Government, but I very much hope that that will take place before the summer recess. I’d very much want to be in a position to report back to the Senedd before the summer recess.