2. Questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Trefnydd and Chief Whip – in the Senedd at 2:32 pm on 8 January 2025.
Questions now from the party spokespeople. And first of all, the Welsh Conservative spokesperson, Altaf Hussain.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Cabinet Secretary, may I take this opportunity to wish you and all Members and the Deputy Presiding Officer a happy new year? Sadly, it won't be a happy start to the year for many. We are currently in the grip of an arctic blast and perfect storm for fuel poverty. New Year's Day saw the energy price cap rise once again, which, taken together with the changes to the winter fuel payments, will push more people to take the tough choice to switch off the heating.
According to a recent study, published in the journal of the American College of Cardiology, cold weather is a critical factor, triggering both minor and major heart attacks. It might sound alarmist, but the fact is that fuel poverty can be deadly. Therefore, Cabinet Secretary, what immediate steps are you taking to ensure that people don't freeze to death this winter?
Thank you very much and a happy new year to you too, Altaf Hussain.
And congratulations on your new role, and I look forward very much to working with you. You have raised a really important point in terms of the impact of cold weather on older people. And we have to look at our responsibilities as a Welsh Government, and that is about making sure that we can get money into people's pockets, build that financial resilience, encourage people to take up the entitlements that they have, and also to get the free expert energy advice that's available via the Nest helpline with the Warm Homes Nest scheme, investing more than £30 million this year.
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, and I look forward to working with you as well. Whilst it is true to say that concerns about cuts to the winter fuel payment are dominating headlines—indeed, Age Cymru advice lines have seen an 11,000-person increase in inquiries about the allowance—those still in receipt of the payment will see little benefit as a result of the price cap increase. People in Wales will now pay amongst the highest standing charges for electricity in the UK. Consumers in south Wales will pay 64p per day, rising to a staggering 68p. These standing charges cost more than the winter fuel payment for those under 80. Cabinet Secretary, can you provide an update on discussions you have had with Ofgem and UK Government Ministers about ending standing charges?
Well, thank you very much for that question, because, again, I’m entirely in support of the views that you take, particularly relating to the price cap. I’ve met with Ofgem following that rise. And I think it is important in terms of looking at ways in which we can work, not just in terms of our powers, but also with the new UK Government, in terms of their responsibilities. One of the key points that we’ve been making is that we should now—and I’ve met with UK Government Ministers—move towards a social tariff, also working and raising these issues with Ofgem as well, who have done a review of outstanding charges. I’ve met also with energy suppliers themselves to say that we want to move from the standing charges arrangements, which, actually, also particularly disadvantage people in Wales—north Wales customers have got the highest standing charges. Some energy providers have agreed that they don’t think standing charges are appropriate. But also we have to look at other ways in which energy providers can help their customers. It’s important that the Bevan Foundation did some work on how energy providers can support their customers, and, of course, that’s a strong message that’s going out now from ourselves and the UK Government to energy suppliers.
But standing charges—it’s a postcode lottery, and it’s also the fact that people pay those standing charges even when they’ve used very little or no electricity. It’s profoundly unfair on customers on low incomes. And, of course, again, prepayment meters—people are still paying lower standing charges than those on other payments. That’s one step in improving the position, but still profoundly unfair, and of course leads to that fuel poverty that you and I want to address.
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Of course, fuel poverty is not just a huge concern for the elderly; the increase to the price cap will also have a detrimental impact on families up and down Wales. Research by Citizens Advice found that nearly two thirds of Welsh households are concerned about whether they can afford their energy bill this winter. The British Chamber of Commerce has warned that the UK Government’s budget will lead to price rises for food and other essentials, putting further pressure on family budgets, and making the choice between heating and eating a sad reality for many. Cabinet Secretary, what additional steps will your Government take to combat fuel and food poverty and protect the Welsh public from the negative impacts of the UK Government’s autumn budget?
Thank you again for your questions. You will know that we are particularly concerned about tackling fuel poverty and finding ways to not only raise these issues that you’ve earlier described in terms of the unfairness of standing charges and the need for a social tariff as well, but that we also have our own fuel voucher scheme and discretionary assistance scheme that can help people with their fuel costs, alongside the Warm Homes programme, which you’ll be hearing more about from the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government next week. But I think it is important that we recognise that I’ve put more money into the Fuel Bank Foundation, and many of you in this Chamber are now able to refer to the Fuel Bank Foundation, so that the fuel vouchers can be made available, and, indeed, access to the discretionary assistance fund for people who are off-grid as well.
Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Sioned Williams.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. As the new year begins, I’d like to know what new approach is being taken by the Welsh Government to fixing the gaping and widening holes in the safety net that is meant to support our most vulnerable citizens. Because while the new UK Prime Minister now wears a red tie, the need to mitigate the decisions taken by the Westminster Government—to maintain the two-child limit and benefit cap, to carry on with Tory welfare reforms, to deepen fuel poverty among our pensioners by scrapping the winter fuel allowance—is very much needed. We've seen that Scotland are able to do this because they have more powers than we do. So, the Welsh Government pledged it would explore the devolution of the administration of welfare to this end, and we were told initially it would be completed by summer last year, but the last we heard officially is it's now going to be spring this year before the work is done. So, could you provide an update on progress in researching the feasibility and implications of devolving the administration of social security to Wales, and what specific discussions have you had with the new UK Government regarding the devolution of welfare?
Thank you for your very important questions.
The devolution of welfare, social security, our Welsh benefits system, you will know—. And I very much have appreciated the meetings that we've had—in the co-operation agreement and since, in recent months and weeks—to enable us to update you, and colleagues across the Chamber, on the devolution of the administration of welfare. Because that is, of course, what we were looking at—exploring the necessary infrastructure that we'd need to prepare for it. Obviously, if we were to move to a transfer of power, it would have to include a transfer of appropriate financial support as well. So, we are now moving into the position where we have commissioned work to see what that infrastructure could look like. But also I'm very keen to update you—and I will be next week, in an oral statement—on the Welsh benefits charter work. In fact, I was very pleased to launch the charter—it must be nearly a year ago now—with your colleague Siân Gwenllian, as part of the co-operation agreement, and I will be updating on the way forward in terms of that work. Of course, the Welsh benefits charter has been supported by all 22 local authorities in Wales. And I was able to present the streamlining Welsh benefits phase 1 route-map to the partnership council last month.
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. I didn't hear there an answer to my question around who exactly have you been speaking to as regards UK Ministers on this, and when we can expect also that research that's being done, that feasibility on the devolution of the administration of welfare—when we can expect to see the fruits of that. So, if you could perhaps address that in your next answer. Because nowhere is the need to ensure Wales is given the same tools to care and support our most vulnerable people more apparent than in the area of welfare. And I really do think that the less-than-adequate and perhaps timid policies that we can enact here to address social desperation is really fuelling support for the far right.
We have long called, on these benches, for a statutory system to ensure that every pound the Welsh Government spends reaches the pockets of the eligible as quickly and as simply as possible. This Senedd voted for a motion that I brought forward on this matter, and, as you've alluded to, this month marks a year since the publication of the Welsh benefits charter. It's a voluntary charter, promising to cut bureaucracy and barriers at a local government level. You mention that it's still in phase 1—that's pretty shocking a full year on—still working on delivering a system for just three of those Welsh benefits systems. So, could you tell us what barriers are causing these delays, and what is the current timeline for implementing all benefits under this charter?
Diolch yn fawr. I apologise I didn't answer your first question about engagement with the UK Government; I will do so now. I think the most important route to engagement that I've had in recent weeks and months is to be part of a four-nations child poverty taskforce. The UK Government announced last August that they were going to develop a child poverty taskforce, and met with devolved nations, and then set up a devolved nations network meeting. In fact, we've got a further meeting next week. And we know that, in terms of tackling issues, social security is crucial to tackling child poverty. So, I can assure you that I've raised these issues in that context of that four-nations meeting, and, of course, meeting with our colleagues from the Scottish Government and the Northern Ireland Executive, providing our evidence from our child poverty strategy of what is needed in terms of maximising income, getting money into people’s pockets, which is so important in terms of tackling child poverty. So, I will be giving much greater detail next Tuesday in the oral statement on the Welsh benefits charter, and also how local authorities are responding to this. You will know that the first phase is enabling people to claim three key benefits: the council tax reduction scheme, free school meals and the school essentials grant. We obviously now need to see that that is delivered with pace in the coming weeks and months.
Yes, I think we’ve seen the need for crisis support skyrocket. We’ve had figures from Citizens Advice and other agencies telling us this. So, it is disappointing that, after a year, only three—and two of those are very much interlinked, the school essentials grant and free school meals. Even those still haven’t been unlocked, a year on into this work. Perhaps if it was on a statutory footing we would have seen greater progress.
I want to address the discretionary assistance fund, which, of course, is the main vehicle the Welsh Government has for providing crisis support. Citizens Advice met with me recently, saying they are seeing a reduction in the number of times a person can apply for a DAF EAP in the year now from five back to the pre-pandemic level of three, and they say that this means people in dire hardship are being left unsupported.
All the statistics show the need for emergency support is the same if not higher than it was during the pandemic, and therefore access to the DAF should reflect this. They also say inconsistency is seen to be a problem. One adviser said, ‘I can put one application through for a broken-down washing machine or something like that and it gets turned down; a different adviser puts one through, it gets looked at by a different decision maker, and it’ll go through.’
So, while there’s been extra welcome funding for the DAF in the DAF budget, are you confident this is sufficient to meet the growing demand for emergency support, and will you ensure the DAF is still fit for purpose by undertaking a review of its design and its flexibility and eligibility criteria?
Well, thank you for that question. The discretionary assistance fund is crucial for our ambition and our aim to tackle child poverty and to tackle poverty for all generations, because the discretionary assistance fund is a demand-led crisis fund available to all Welsh citizens. It does provide that emergency support for anyone over the age of 16 in financial crisis with no other means of support. Yes, the budget will remain at £38.5 million. For this year, it remains at that. We will increase it for next year. But also I have to say that we do work with an external group of those—Citizens Advice, Bevan Foundation and others—who advise us on the delivery of the discretionary assistance fund. But, for colleagues’ information, between 1 April and 31 October last year, 115,979 applications have been supported with nearly £16 million in grants. Of these, nearly £9.5 million were cash payments, supporting with the cost of food and gas and electricity. And of course, the cash payments do provide support to very financially vulnerable individuals and families with their basic living costs.