8. Statement by the Minister for Children and Social Care: The importance of the first 1,000 days of life — Conception to 2 years

– in the Senedd at 5:56 pm on 1 October 2024.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:56, 1 October 2024

(Translated)

The next item is a statement by the Minister for Children and Social Care: the importance of the first 1,000 days of life—conception to two years. And I call on the Minister to make the statement—Dawn Bowden

Photo of Dawn Bowden Dawn Bowden Labour

(Translated)

Thank you, Llywydd, and thank you for the opportunity to make this statement. 

Photo of Dawn Bowden Dawn Bowden Labour

Thank you for the opportunity to be able to make this statement here today. As the Minister for Children and Social Care, of course, I'm committed to ensuring that all babies and young children, irrespective of their background, are supported to have the best start in life. This means quality early years services, as well as support for parents, carers and those working with young children and families, to uphold the rights of our youngest members of the community, acting in their best interests.

We know the period during pregnancy up to the child’s second birthday offers the greatest potential for impact, in both improving outcomes and reducing inequalities. Evidence highlights the significance of this early phase, shaping not only individual lives throughout the life course, but also impacting on generations to come. Our child poverty strategy sets the direction for the Welsh Government, working with our partners to prevent poverty and to mitigate the impact of poverty on children, young people and their families. Giving children the best start in life is a fundamental part of this work.

The NHS, of course, has a key role in reducing inequalities in outcomes in the early years. Health visiting and midwifery services, as the universal support services in the first 1,000 days, are uniquely placed to support families, systematically assess need, and enable targeted support and intervention where needed. The maternity and neonatal safety support programme, led by the NHS Executive, is a three-year programme aiming to improve outcomes, reduce variation and enhance safety. The quality statement currently being developed will set out what 'good' looks like for maternity and neonatal services, ensuring every family receives the best care with optimum outcomes. 

For those babies born prematurely, we have also implemented a bundle of care, PERIPrem, across Wales to optimise the outcomes for those born early. The Healthy Child Wales programme sets the strategic direction for health boards to deliver a universal health visiting programme to all families in Wales. It covers the period from the handover of maternity services to the first years of schooling, with services tailored to meet individual needs. The programme plays a crucial role in improving health outcomes and promoting the health and well-being of children in Wales. Our expectation is that every child and family will be offered the Healthy Child Wales programme.

Good prevention and early intervention can help us to identify problems sooner and stop them getting worse. So, our Families First and Flying Start programmes are a key part of tackling adverse childhood experiences and building stronger and more resilient families and communities. Those professionals and services, working with children and their families, are best placed to understand the particular importance of the first 1,000 days to a child's future and well-being. Just this morning, I was at an event organised by the cross-party group on children and families to consider adverse childhood experiences, trauma, and the first 1,000 days, and I was very pleased to speak at that event and take a Q&A session from stakeholders and partners, who are fully engaged and recognise the value of this programme, because we all want Wales to be a wonderful place for all babies, young children and their families to thrive. We want them to thrive through enriched opportunities and experiences that can be provided by early childhood play, learning and care.

Our Flying Start programme continues to make a real difference to the lives of children in some of our most disadvantaged communities. The provision of high-quality, part-time childcare is integral to this programme, contributing to children’s developmental progress alongside the acquisition of skills, such as socialisation, ability to play and concentration. It also aims to prepare children, who are experiencing disadvantage and poverty, with the skills required for school, and that's why we continue to expand the childcare element of the programme to support long-term, positive impacts on the lives of those children and families across Wales.

Parents, of course, have a significant influence on their baby’s health, well-being and development. A securely attached infant is likely to have better social and emotional development, educational achievement and mental health. Responsive interactions in the first 1,000 days are also critical to early speech, language and communication development, and that's why we're promoting speech, language and communication development in the first 1,000 days, through Talk with Me, by supporting families as well as upskilling the childcare, health and social care workforce.

Well-nourished children are better able to grow, learn and participate in their communities. A healthy weight also supports their life chances and health outcomes in the long term. With one quarter of children in Wales overweight or obese by the age of five, the most critical time for good nutrition is during this period, to lay the foundations for dietary behaviours in adulthood. 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' sets out our wide range of commitments to support children and families. And for those, like me, who have done it, they will know that parenting isn’t easy, and more can be done to help create the conditions for families in Wales to flourish. Social stresses can affect parents' mental health and their ability to provide a nurturing environment during the early years of a child’s life. And I’m pleased to say that we are in the final stages of analysing responses to our consultation on the draft mental health and well-being strategy, and my colleague Sarah Murphy, the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being, will have more to say on that in a statement coming up shortly.

Now, Teulu Cymru is a brand for parents, carers and families of children aged nought to 18. It's  pointing them in the right direction for different Welsh Government sources of practical and financial support. From parenting tips and expert development advice to help with childcare costs, Teulu Cymru makes it easier for parents to find support in one place, through our social media channels and web landing page. The platform brings together the content from existing Welsh Government parenting campaigns: 'Parenting. Give it Time', ending physical punishment, Talk with Me, and the childcare offer for Wales. It also signposts to other information that parents in Wales have told us they want. Teulu Cymru is working with Public Health Wales's Every Child Wales campaign, which focuses on the first 1,000 days and beyond. Through our wide range of packages of support, this Government is fully committed to supporting and empowering parents and families to flourish and thrive through this crucial stage of a child’s life.

(Translated)

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair.

Photo of Gareth Davies Gareth Davies Conservative 6:04, 1 October 2024

Thank you very much for your statement this evening, as I think it is now, Minister. The first two years of our lives are, in many ways, the most important, being a unique window of opportunity to support child development and long-term health. Environmental factors in the first two years, whether positive or negative, have long-term effects on a person's life. Receiving the right nutrition, for example, is imperative for a baby's growth, development of the brain, digestive tract, metabolism and immune system, and almost all issues that affect children during their first two years are linked to poverty.

The previous First Minister declared his commitment to the first 1,000 days approach in the context of tackling poverty, and it is essential that a focus is placed specifically on child poverty. So, I'm disappointed that the First Minister has removed child poverty as a priority for her Government. Poverty disproportionately impacts children in Wales compared to working-age adults and pensioners. Twenty-eight per cent of children in Wales live in poverty compared to 21 per cent for working-age adults. Poverty has a significant link to children's health, with obesity, smoking and mental health conditions all being more prevalent in areas of deprivation. To highlight a more shocking statistic, the childhood death rate was 70 per cent higher in the most deprived areas of Wales compared with the least deprived. Public Health Wales have also highlighted that insecure work and high childcare costs are posing an increasing risk to children's health and well-being. It has been raised before in this Chamber that Wales has the second highest economic inactivity rate, and, combined with a poorer free childcare offer, working parents cannot afford childcare for their young children, and this can inhibit the development of a child. Many families living in relative poverty also do not qualify for the Flying Start scheme, with 48 per cent of families living in disadvantaged areas living outside of the Flying Start catchment, which is operating like a postcode lottery. These are all issues that need to be addressed by the Welsh Government through the 1,000-days lens. In addition to child poverty, there should be a focused approach to child health inequality, which includes recognising that the current child health inequality trends are unsustainable and could have a devastating impact on the upcoming generation and future prosperity of Wales, unless urgently addressed.

I'd also like to see a child health workforce plan and improved collection and sharing of child health data, which would allow health boards to identify areas that are underperforming. The poor data collection, which does not allow the user to filter by paediatric speciality, appears to be a deliberate attempt to obfuscate the true picture of child health in Wales by making it difficult to determine the precise data. These calls are shared by the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health and deserve stronger consideration.

The Welsh Government also needs to work with charities to ensure they have sustainable long-term funding for schemes such as Project Unity by the National Youth Advocacy Service, which provides support to care-experienced mothers of Barnado's Baby and Me programme in Newport, which has halved the number of babies taken into care. These are vital services undertaking the work that the state can't do, and they need reliable and sustainable funding to continue their work, which will have a dramatic impact on the long-term prospects and well-being of the mothers and infants that they help.

I'm pleased to hear the Minister speak about the increasing number of children who are overweight or obese. In fact, this is a bigger problem than malnutrition, with a quarter of children in Wales becoming overweight or obese by the age of five, as you've referenced, Minister. We hear a lot about banning things and calling for more funding to combat this, but education is perhaps more important, and it's vital that the Welsh Government educate parents and children as to the importance of a balanced diet and how to prepare healthy meals for a reasonable price.

I also want to touch on neurodiversity and the additional learning needs, which was absent from the Minister's statement. Approximately one in seven people in the UK are neurodivergent, and there has been an extraordinary rise in autism diagnoses in the past few decades, with one study showing a 787 per cent rise in the number of autism diagnoses between 1998 and 2018 in the UK. The number of children presenting with additional learning needs is also increasing, and became more acute since the COVID-19 pandemic, and this is something that workers in the early years sector bring to my attention regularly. But, in the early years sector, workers repeatedly tell me that children are presenting with additional learning needs but there is no detection or support apparatus for children of that age, yet signs present are detected by staff in children under two. So, I'm keen to understand how the Minister plans to improve early detection and support for children with additional learning needs, which equip families with tools earlier, before, I should say, the child enters the school. Thank you very much.

Photo of Dawn Bowden Dawn Bowden Labour 6:09, 1 October 2024

Thank you, Gareth Davies, for those points and questions, much of which I absolutely agree with. I think we are on the same page in wanting to achieve the best outcomes for the children in their first 1,000 days and this really is what the statement is all about. So, there are other aspects of the points that you made that don't really fall into the parameters of the statement, but I'll try and deal with as many of them as I can.

Photo of Dawn Bowden Dawn Bowden Labour 6:10, 1 October 2024

Can I first of all just talk about ALN and neurodiversity, because that sits with my colleague Sarah Murphy, the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being? I'm sure, if you want to address those views, she's listened to what you've said today, and I'm sure she’ll be able to pick those up and respond to you.

Can I be very clear? This Government has not and will not deprioritise child poverty. The First Minister was on a listening exercise over the summer, and there were things that people were saying to us and to her that were identified as being key priorities that this Government should deliver before the end of this term. That doesn't mean that everything else in the Government stops—it absolutely doesn't—and child poverty and our child poverty strategy, in seeking to deal with that across every ministerial portfolio, is still very much a priority for the Government. So, I don't want anybody to think that we are deprioritising that in any way.

In terms of health inequalities, we do have a strategy on child health, and that strategy is very clearly about ensuring, where we identify health inequality in children, that we seek to address that. We have the Healthy Child Wales Programme, and that's what that seeks to do. That mandates nine specific contacts with health professionals in Wales, from 10 to 14 days old right up to the age of three and a half. And those contacts have to be conducted by health visiting teams, led by GP and primary care providers. So, we're very clear that we are aware of the particular inequalities, and some front loading, if you like, is part of that Healthy Child Wales Programme, but is enhanced in the Flying Start programme where we have very much an enhanced health visiting service that sits along that as part of Flying Start and the first 1,000 days programme.

I want to just touch very briefly, if I can, on your comment about childcare and childcare costs, and the comment that you made about the difference, if you like, between what is on offer here and what is on offer in England. I want to be very clear that the UK Government and the Welsh Government's approach to providing funded children is different. It is not like comparing apples and pears. We have a different offer and a different set of priorities around what we think is important. So, we have our early childhood play, learning and care approach in Wales, which places the child and child development at the heart of everything that we do. And we do recognise, of course, that childcare costs are a significant expense for families, especially alongside rising living costs, and that's why childcare is a key priority for this Government. And we are investing heavily in childcare and early years provision—more than £100 million we're investing in childcare provision each year in Wales. Now, Flying Start provides a fully funded, quality childcare package for parents of all eligible two- and three-year-olds, and for two and a half hours a day, five days a week, 39 weeks of the years. Parents, obviously, can supplement that if they want to.

And to deal with the issue of expansion, we have committed to expanding the funded childcare offer to all two-year-olds, and that is being taken forward through our Flying Start programme. We've invested a further £46 million to do that, to support childcare in the longer term. We're expecting to support and additional 9,500 two-year-olds across Wales to access that additional Flying Start provision. We are on track to deliver that, and we are on track to gradually build towards a universal Flying Start childcare offer to all two-year-olds across Wales. We have the phase 2 of the Flying Start roll-out expansion, which was part of the co-operation agreement that we had with Plaid Cymru, and that is being rolled out now as we speak.

But, of course, in addition to that, we also have the universal childcare offer, and that is a childcare offer that provides 30 hours of funded childcare and early education every week for 48 weeks of the year for three- and four-year-olds, and that is for all eligible parents, all eligible working parents, and parents who are in training and education. And that compares to just 38 weeks a year in England for working parents only. So, parents that are involved in training and education to get into work are not eligible for any childcare benefits and support in England, which they are in Wales. Our offer also allows for flexible holiday provision. So, I think there is an awful lot for us to be proud of. We have a flagship policy around developmental childcare facilities through the Flying Start programme. It is something that they don't have in England. It is one of the things that we have prioritised as being something that is needed in those areas where there is the greatest need for it, and that is primarily in those areas of economic deprivation where we know the outcomes of younger children are more uncertain, and so we have, as a policy decision and as a priority, decided to place our priority on the Flying Start programme and the childcare offer in the way that we have it at the moment.

Photo of Sioned Williams Sioned Williams Plaid Cymru 6:16, 1 October 2024

(Translated)

Thank you for the statement. You have said that the Government has committed to ensuring that babies are given the best possible start and opportunity in life, but is that aim being given full attention and appropriate investment from the Welsh Government, because, yes, I'm sure that the Government is doing many things, but it is an important and significant signal, isn't it, when there is no mention of the early years or tackling child poverty on that list of priorities that was set out by the First Minister? It sends a signal. She talked about listening not just to the loudest voices when deciding on priorities, but I have to say, from hearing her list, the voices of children—those least empowered, least loud in our society—clearly hadn't been listened to over the summer.

She has appointed a Minister for children, although education and tackling child poverty are the responsibility of two other Cabinet Secretaries, and what you are responsible for, therefore, within the field of care and health requires effective collaboration. You mentioned in passing in your statement the child poverty strategy. Which elements of the child poverty strategy in particular are you going to prioritise? How will you work across Government to achieve the goal? How will you measure the outputs of that work? This was a clear message from the conference in the Senedd this morning—I was there too—organised by the cross-party group on children and families, and I hope that you heard that emphasis, the emphasis that was placed on the fact that there needed to be more interdepartmental co-operation and collaboration in terms of health, education, social care and housing policy.

Research shows that interventions during the first 1,000 days are crucial in ensuring that the playing field is more level, and preventative measures play a vital role in this, of course. The whole nation benefits from this, and it can lead to savings for the public purse, ultimately, as well, not to mention avoiding trauma and harm. So, what measures do you believe would have the most impact in achieving that goal? Are you, for example, considering reversing the cut to the baby bundle programme, which was a commitment in your programme for government, bearing in mind that households with young children are more likely to be living in relative poverty? It allows families to meet the fundamental needs of their children in those crucial early days, and also the bundles acted as a gateway to support and advice—that first crucial point of contact in the first 1,000 days. You cut that abruptly, of course, having said that it would be rolled out on a national level, having piloted it and having a successful evaluation. This was, of course, just a few months after you announced your child poverty strategy.

The childcare system in Wales doesn't work for children or their families, so I hope you will have read the work of the Equality and Social Justice Committee on this. We've drawn up two reports now. Will you answer the calls from experts to ensure uninterrupted and affordable childcare provision, ensuring that it's accessible? It's crucial, of course, in eliminating inequality. It's so important. Parents and providers, importantly, are telling us that they find it very difficult to get through the current confusion in terms of the different schemes, and the early years survey has highlighted that a quarter of the current providers don't think that they will be able to continue to provide childcare for another year. This rises to four out of five after two years. The system is complex, ineffective, and it's about to collapse, so what's your response to that?

Finally, I'd like to turn to the need to support the sectors that do invaluable work in supporting families where there is a risk that the baby could be taken into care. The innovative Baby and Me project, developed in partnership with Barnado's Cymru and Newport City Council, provides intensive and successful support before and after childbirth, bringing health services, social services and parenting support together. It has ensured excellent outputs, helping to change the course of young lives. The children and young people committee, which I was a member of at that time, says that the Welsh Government should ensure access to preventative and early intervention services such as this for all families that need them across Wales. That hasn't happened, and organisations like Barnado's Cymru and NYAS Cymru, who also do crucial work in providing intensive support for young women who have experience of care through Project Unity, have raised concerns about the Government's ability to meet its commitment to reduce the high rate of children under local authority child protection orders who are the children of care-experienced mothers, as no long-term funding has been earmarked for the project. So, can you give us an assurance that the Welsh Government will continue with this funding in order to continue the excellent and essential work that Barnado's Cymru and NYAS Cymru are doing?

Photo of Dawn Bowden Dawn Bowden Labour 6:21, 1 October 2024

Thank you, Sioned, for those points—quite a lot in there, and, again, we're not on a different page on these things; we have exactly the same objectives in terms of wanting to eradicate child poverty and wanting to ensure that our children have the best start in life, which is why we have maintained the first 1,000 days programme. We see that as a vital programme for those children, particularly those children in some of the most disadvantaged communities in Wales.

So, I just refer you back to the answer I gave to Gareth Davies earlier on around the child poverty issue. The child poverty strategy hasn't been thrown out of the window; it is still absolutely central to the work of this Government. It is, of course, led by the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, but it doesn't sit with her and her alone; this is a cross-cutting and cross-departmental objective and priority, and it was actually one of the things that I spoke about, if you were there, this morning—I don't know whether you were there when I was doing the Q&A—when I talked about that so many of these things, including child poverty, sit with a particular Minister, but that doesn't mean that it's only that Minister that has anything to do. So, clearly, within Cabinet, we have these discussions about how all our policies impact on those cross-cutting policies. So, tackling child poverty of course sits absolutely with addressing the first 1,000 days and making sure that those children get the best start in life. So, there are lots of things that we have to do within the first 1,000 days that are contributing to that agenda. It won't in and of itself eradicate it because there's a much wider economic agenda that is involved in eradicating child poverty as well, which includes getting parents back into work and so on, which comes on to the childcare offer and the need for consistency around that, and I've already explained in quite some detail, again in response to Gareth Davies, our position on that.

Can I be very clear? We meet with our stakeholders and our partners. So, Barnado's and NYAS, and all of these other organisations, I meet with them on a regular basis, so I'm regularly having these conversations with them, and I understand only too well the concerns that they have around funding. That was one of the questions that came up in the Q&A with me today and one of the things that I'm very keen to see happens, if we are in a position to do so, is to enter into longer term funding arrangements with these organisations. It's something they've long been calling for, but it's something that we've long been calling for from the UK Government because we can only allocate our funding to organisations on the same basis as the way in which our funding is allocated. So, we don't know, for example, what our budget is beyond March 2025. So, until we know what is going to be happening to the Welsh Government budget from March 2025, we can't give any guarantees to any of the organisations that we fund beyond that date. But I am well aware of the really good positive work that these organisations are doing—you've cited the Baby and Me project; there are lots and lots of very similar projects like that across the country that I would like to see rolled out, that that good practice is shared elsewhere, that we see it funded, and that we see that contributing to this first 1,000 days programme. But what I can't say to you today here and now—I can't say to any organisation—is exactly what funding will be made available from March 2025. As soon as we know that, then we will have those conversations with the organisations and we will roll that out as quickly as we can.

Can I just say on the child protection orders, which again, I'm absolutely on board with you with—I'm talking too much—that I'm absolutely on board with you with, that part of our transformation of children's services is exactly what that is aiming to address? So, you will be aware of the elimination programme, you will be aware of the legislation that we're introducing, the social care legislation, social care Bill, which is about eliminating the profit from the care of looked-after children, but, sitting alongside that—. That's just a piece of legislation that is going to enable a technical change to take place, which will mean that we only have not-for-profit provision in that sector. But that in itself won't work on its own. What we have to deliver, and we are in the process of delivering, is a complete transformation of the way that children's services are delivered, and that is very much about keeping children together with their families where it is safe to do so. And that means that all of the work around parental advocacy and parenting skills and all of the things that are necessary to keep families together is what the transformation of children's services is aiming to do. And the upshot of that, if successful, is that there will be fewer children taken into care, and fewer children on child protection orders.

So, there is no one thing that we can look at in isolation and say, 'If we do that, that will work.' We have to do a series of programmes and policies that will bring all of that together. So, it is absolutely our objective, Sioned, and we have a very clear programme and ambition for how we're going to achieve that, and that work is under way.

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 6:27, 1 October 2024

Thank you for your statement. As you said, parenting is a really tough job and we need a society that supports parents, offers support networks and a real sense of community. Community hubs are a real help to minimise the impact of wider structural factors on children's health, well-being and learning; they provide very safe and warm spaces, and they give new parents and their babies a much-needed change of scenery, as well as enhancing both children's and parents' social networks, which of course we know then leads to much more effective parenting. In my constituency, particularly in wards such as Queensway 1, which is, I think, currently ninth in the Welsh index of multiple deprivation, these hubs are absolutely critical, so what is the Welsh Government doing to support such facilities?

Photo of Dawn Bowden Dawn Bowden Labour 6:28, 1 October 2024

Thank you, Lesley Griffiths, for that question, and you're absolutely right: community hubs are one of those real success stories. They're being funded through the integrated and rebalancing care fund. So, there's a fund that has been made available through regional partnership boards to develop all of these community hubs and these projects right the way across the country. And I've just picked out a few that I'm aware of, and there may be many, many more; you've just identified the one in your own constituency. There's the Llanrwst Family Centre in Conwy, which provides a weekly baby club, and is run by health visitors with the south Conwy family support team. In Blaenau Gwent, they've got a community-based approach to Flying Start with a one-door approach—so, they have eight locations across Blaenau Gwent and you can go to any of those and get the support that you need, whether it's a baby clinic, whether it's parenting support; there are toddler groups, there are childcare, sensory attachment provisions, speech and language and so on. And then we've got other integrated children's centre models across Swansea and Carmarthen and so on. So, what I'm saying, really, is I agree with you; I agree that those are critical to all of our areas, right the way across Wales, that we continue to invest in those and that we continue to make those hubs available to families and babies, so that they can be part of that first 1,000 days programme. Diolch.

Photo of Mabon ap Gwynfor Mabon ap Gwynfor Plaid Cymru 6:30, 1 October 2024

For the preventative agenda to be truly effective, it must be responsive from the very start of life. Mental health services, in particular, have an important role in this context. A quarter of women experience a mental health problem during pregnancy or in the first year after the birth of their baby, as well as one in 10 partners. There is also abundant evidence to show that insufficient early intervention amongst children can precipitate and exacerbate health issues later in life. And yet, it is abundantly clear that the provision of perinatal mental health continues to fall far short of where it needs to be. All seven of Wales's seven perinatal services continue to fall short of full compliance with national type 1 College Centre for Quality Improvement standards. So, I'd be grateful for an update from the Minister as to when we should expect improvements on this front. A recent survey has also revealed that 61 per cent of health professionals in Wales have not received any training on infant mental health, so can the Minister explain how she intends to strengthen the knowledge base of the workforce in this area?

Photo of Dawn Bowden Dawn Bowden Labour 6:31, 1 October 2024

Thank you, Mabon, for that question, and I'm really not trying to avoid answering the question, but this is really a question for my colleague Sarah Murphy, the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being, and she is sat here, she has heard what you've said, and, again, I would suggest the best thing that we can do is to respond to you on those matters. She's heard what you have had to say today.

Photo of Jenny Rathbone Jenny Rathbone Labour

I'm very sorry that Jane Dodds is not able to be here today, because I think she did an absolutely fantastic job in organising the conference this morning and bringing together all the stakeholders.

I just want to focus on the period when someone becomes pregnant up to and post the birth, because it's really important to make early identification of issues or anxieties that are so key to preparing people for taking on that lifelong responsibility. This is a journey that people have to go through, and they simply have to be prepared that it is going to be a lifelong responsibility. Parenting doesn't come with instructions and those who have themselves experienced poor parenting in their own lives are likely to repeat that unless they get support.

I'm really concerned that first-time mums in particular are not getting sufficient time or continuity of care with their midwife to trust their advice, and that is what midwives have told me. They will tell them that having an induction does not necessarily lead to a labour and it may, otherwise, lead to an emergency caesarean, and it really is as a result of insufficient support—

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 6:33, 1 October 2024

You need to ask the question, please, Jenny.

Photo of Jenny Rathbone Jenny Rathbone Labour

—antenatally and an overstretched labour ward that often the cascade of intervention occurs. So, given that it takes a village to raise a child, how are you determining what 'good' looks like in your quality statement and what input is involved from people with lived experience of the good support they had or were denied? Who will be speaking up for mothers and babies where extra support is required, if it simply isn't available from a supportive partner or a family who live 200 miles away, or they don't know anybody in the community, and we are having to—

Photo of Jenny Rathbone Jenny Rathbone Labour

How are we going to get midwives and health visitors filling that gap that exists for so many people?

Photo of Dawn Bowden Dawn Bowden Labour

Thank you, Jenny. That's a hugely important point that you're raising, and what we should be having is services through maternity and neonatal services. We do have a safety support programme, and that should be delivering the kinds of things that, absolutely, you're talking about. We are getting feedback through the quality framework now about where that is working well, where that is not working well.

Again, in response to a question by Sioned, what I'm very keen to see, and not just in this area, but in lots of areas within my portfolio, we see very good examples of good practice. What we don't see is consistency of good practice, and it's that consistency of good practice that I'm interested in. So, where we know things are working well, we should be saying in other areas, 'If it can work well here, it can work well there.' Now, I know that one size doesn't fit all. I know that urban communities are very different to rural communities, and so on. But care and support and nurturing, and so on, is universal, really. And for parents to be able to understand and to learn skills that they've never acquired because of the way that they were parented is absolutely crucial to this process. So, as I say, I think the key to this, Jenny, absolutely is identifying good practice and making sure that that good practice is rolled out universally.

Photo of Julie Morgan Julie Morgan Labour

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Thank you very much to the Minister for bringing such an important statement to us here today. I just wanted to say at the beginning that I do absolutely support the concentration on the first 1,000 days of a child's life. It's very important. But I also think it's really important to think of it in the context of a child's whole life, because children will need a lot of support at different stages of their lives. And some very young children who may have missed out on some of the great things that are available, which the Minister has said about, will need the opportunity to have that later on, and to have the opportunity to be nurtured and cared for in a way that will mean that they're not scarred, inevitably, because I'm very optimistic that children who've been through very bad experiences will be able to recover.

Obviously, the beginning of a child's life is an absolutely momentous time and it's a momentous time for the family. I also wanted to ask the Minister to update us on what development there had been with the Bwndel Babi project. As the Minister will know, this was intended to give children the very best start in life, by gifting new and expecting parents and adoptive parents a bundle of essentials, such as high-quality baby clothes, items for play, safe bathing products, products to help women post birth, advice on breastfeeding and good parenting, and promoting the Welsh language

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 6:37, 1 October 2024

You need to conclude now please, Julie.

Photo of Julie Morgan Julie Morgan Labour

—and all these sorts of things that are a great boost to families at that time. So, could she update us, please?

Photo of Dawn Bowden Dawn Bowden Labour

Yes. Thank you, Julie Morgan, for that question. And sorry, Sioned, can I apologise to you, because you did raise the issue of baby bundles? So, I'll answer this for both of you. But can I just say, before I answer that about baby bundles, that I absolutely agree with you about the need for children to be able to have an opportunity at every stage in their lives? And I'm sure that the Cabinet Secretary for Education would be supportive of that view, because we know that some children will slip through the net and they won't get those early interventions and that early support. And that is why it is so important that all professionals who come into contact with children in particular are trauma informed and understand the impact that trauma has on a child if that is not dealt with and addressed at a very early age. But it doesn't mean that it can never be addressed and that that child can't be helped to live a full and fulfilling life, going forward, with professionals who understand how to deal with that.

Now, in terms of the baby bundle, it does still remain a priority for the Welsh Government and it remains a programme for government commitment. So, we are looking at providing the bundle on a targeted geographical basis, which reduces the financial pressures, then, on those families who are in the greatest need and in some of the most deprived areas of Wales. And we're looking to build a geographically targeted programme, drawing on the lessons that were learnt from the evaluation and the research that's been conducted on the programme. And I do look forward to coming back to the Senedd and providing you with a further update on that in due course.

Of course, the original proposal was that this would be universal, and I think, at the time when you were Minister, Julie, there was a discussion that needed to take place at that time about whether that was affordable, in light of the dire financial position that Welsh Government was in. And as a result of the review of that, it was to look at a revised proposal, which is bringing forward a baby bundle that would be more targeted. So, that is still the intention. I think you issued a written statement back in the early part of the year, where officials were going to be engaging with health colleagues, looking at the appropriate identification and referral mechanisms into the baby bundle programme, undertaking the rapid assessments of the existing research, revisiting the discussions with BookTrust Cymru, and beginning new work on the procurement specifications, so that we could advertise for the new, revised programme. That was all held up ever so slightly because of some of the ministerial changes and departmental changes that went along with those. But the short answer to your question is that it still remains absolutely a Government priority and a programme for government commitment, and I'll come back with a further update as soon as I'm in a position to do so.

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 6:40, 1 October 2024

(Translated)

Thank you, Minister. That brings today's proceedings to a close.

(Translated)

The meeting ended at 18:40.