Questions now from the party leaders. Leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Last week, we had the waiting time figures here in Wales, which regrettably showed another increase in terms of people waiting on NHS waiting lists. Just shy of 800,000 procedures are now on those waiting lists and in excess of 600,000 people are waiting to have one or two of those procedures at any hospital or day surgery that we have here in Wales. I actually am commending the First Minister for coming forward with this offer that Jo Stevens announced at the Labour Party conference yesterday. What I regret is that the First Minister and her party did not take up that offer in August 2023. I have sympathy for the additional 50,000 people who have joined those waiting lists in Wales in the intervening period. Fifty thousand extra people are on a waiting list here in Wales because you declined to take that chance of the second offer scheme in August 2023. Why, today, is that scheme suitable to address the waiting lists and in August 2023 it wasn’t?

I’ll tell you why: it’s because it wasn’t a serious offer. Steve Barclay had not contacted us for an entire year, he had a five-minute meeting, and the next day went on the airways to score a political point. That does not build trust between two Governments. That is not the way to co-operate. There was no false intention from our side. If I thought for a minute that they were serious, I would have bitten their hand off, but they were playing politics, and that is not the way that we’re working.

It was a serious offer, First Minister, but regrettably, 50,000 people have joined those waiting lists here in Wales. I can remember raising with the First Minister in previous sessions whether the Welsh Government was going to take up the second offer scheme that a previous Labour Government brought forward in the early 2000s because waiting times were so bad then here in Wales. But you’re saying it’s a serious offer that was announced at the Labour Party conference yesterday; if it’s a serious offer, how many patients will benefit from the offer and what money will leave Wales to buy this capacity that health boards will have to find? And will it be limited to certain waits such as orthopaedic, or will it carry weight with all waiting times across the whole health service here in Wales?

First of all, if it was a serious offer, there was no follow-up to it. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I think it’s really important also to recognise that you can only offer a second offer if you’ve got capacity, and in England at the time, there wasn’t the capacity. I’ve had a conversation on the weekend with Wes Streeting. We’re very keen to make sure that we share best practice. They are just about to start introducing those 40,000 additional appointments a week through closing that loophole to non-doms. We will get a percentage of that. But the key thing here is that, actually, I think the people of Wales—you've seen their reaction—are very keen for us to work together. That's what they want to see. And the fact is that, already, there is a degree of co-operation. For example, already, if people in England have cleft palates or they need some specific support on burns or plastic surgery, they actually come to Wales. So, it's a two-way system, this. And, on top of that, the thing that was particularly of interest to them was to see how we've already started to make the changes in relation to the shift into primary care, into support in the community. They're very interested in seeing how we've already changed the optometry contract, how we're already giving additional support in terms of pharmacy. So, they can learn from us and we can learn from them, and that's no bad thing.

I think we've seen that two-way working by the withdrawal of the winter fuel payment, where Labour Members have been deathly silent and yet 400,000 homes will lose that payment this year, costing Welsh pensioners £110 million. But I asked you a simple question, First Minister, and in response to my first question you said that it wasn't a serious offer from Steve Barclay in August 2023. Well, if yours is a serious offer, why didn't you give me the number of patients who potentially—? I'm not asking for the nearest single patient, I'm asking for the potential capacity that you and the Westminster Government have assessed might be available; the potential cost that that might incur; and will this offer be limited to specific waits such as orthopaedic or eye or any other condition you might think that the NHS has to deal with. Those are three straightforward questions that people on waiting lists are wondering about, as to whether this offer will benefit them. As I said, I believe that it is a sensible and progressive way of addressing waiting times here in Wales, but I'd like to see the substance of it, otherwise people will just look at it as a PR gimmick that was launched at the Labour Party conference and, this time in six months, we'll still have those chronic waiting times here in Wales.

We've started the conversation, we will come up with the details in weeks to come. We are keen to wait to hear what the next budget will look like, which will give us a sense of how much will come as a result of closing that loophole to the non-dom people, who you let get away with not paying taxes. That was your Government that was responsible for that. We are in conversation. Wes Streeting is very keen to come and see things here, and we are very serious. Already, the fact is that we are co-operating and looking at what more we can do, particularly in the north Wales area.

The leader of Plaid Cymru, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Last week, we saw the First Minister wash her hands of her responsibility to stand up for Wales in a most extraordinary way, I must say. Remember that, for months, people have been told that having two Labour Governments working together, one in Cardiff Bay and one in Westminster, would turn things around for Wales—partnership in power, she now calls it. But when my colleague Sioned Williams asked her to seek help from the Labour UK Government to tackle child poverty, she said:

'This is the way that it works: make sure that you ask your local MPs to ask Keir Starmer.'

When First Ministers don't think it's their responsibility to stand up for Wales, something is seriously wrong. Given she wouldn't do what's needed, I did write to all MPs, and I look forward to their responses. Would she like to explain now how that comment of hers sits with her partnership in power principle, or is the partnership just about giving the thumbs up to whatever Keir Starmer wants, even if that includes cutting the winter fuel payment?

I thought I gave you a lesson in how devolution works last week; have I got to do this every week? I think it's important for us to recognise that there are areas that I'm responsible for, and it's been really good to work with Plaid on delivering things like the free school meals. I think that's a really positive approach to addressing issues like child poverty. It's a direct result, but it's something that's within our control. There are other areas that are not within our control. Of course we can have conversations with our party leaders, and the great thing is that I can have conversations with my party leader, who actually is now the Prime Minister of Britain. That's not something that the leader of Plaid Cymru will ever be able to do.

Thank you very much for the lesson. It's a great reminder, of course, of how devolution can work when Plaid Cymru come to the table to persuade Labour to do something that they voted against time and time again, which was to introduce free school meals. I'm pleased that we were able to persuade you and work together. That's how devolution can work.

She was really on a roll last week after that bizarre 'contact your MP' comment. She then went on, in an ITV interview, to say that she had no more influence over Keir Starmer than she does over Donald Trump. It's taking expectation management to a whole new level. Some people did decide, actually, to be kind by saying, 'At least she's being honest.' On one hand, though, she wants to distance herself from Starmer; on the other hand she's happy to defend him on the winter fuel payment cut. Now she wants to outsource the NHS in Wales to him. Just like the winter fuel payment cut was an idea first put forward by the Tories, then delivered by Labour, the latest cross-border NHS plan was also a proposal by a Tory health Secretary, though more as an insult to Labour's handling of the NHS than anything. But now Labour are running with it themselves.

They'll be sharing good practice, we're told, and that's certainly a good thing. There's no detail, though. And isn't there a huge irony that dentistry is the thing identified as a major success in Wales? It's an irony that won't be lost on all those unable to register with an NHS dentist. But given that the First Minister is keen to blame everyone but herself for the state of the Welsh NHS, including picking a fight with NHS leaders only last week, if her plan to learn from a crisis-hit NHS in England fails, who will the First Minister blame then?

It turns out I've actually got more influence than I realised. I've been in power for 48 days, already the Prime Minister of Britain has made a specific visit to Wales, and over the weekend, I had the opportunity to speak with Keir Starmer, with Rachel Reeves, with Wes Streeting, with Ed Miliband, with Andy Burnham, with Sadiq Khan—all of these people were really keen to discuss with us our plans for the future and how we can work together. That is influence, and it's great to recognise that that is where we're at.

It is, I think, important also to recognise that we don’t have a monopoly in terms of good ideas. But when it comes to dentistry, you're quite right, we've got a long way to go, but we've come a very long way, and the fact that we have managed to introduce nearly 400,000 new patient appointments to the NHS is something that, I think, should be celebrated. If you go to England, you have absolute dental deserts. We encourage people to go and train in rural areas. We can't force dentists to work for the NHS, but the fact that that new contract has delivered that many in two years is, I think, a significant step forward, and it's much better than anything the Tories managed to do in England under the previous Prime Minister.

'We're better than the Tories' really is an incredibly low bar, if I might say. And I'm not impressed by name-dropping who you've been chatting with at the Labour Party conference. Your talk is cheap. We don't want 'talk the talk', we want 'walk the walk' from this Welsh Government.

Choosing dentistry, if I may say, as an example of Labour's success in Wales is extraordinary. Perhaps she can choose a few statistics that sounds good, but surely she knows that the perception of people more generally is that NHS dentistry in Wales is on its knees. Another dental surgery in my constituency closed to NHS treatments just last week. That was a start-of-conference statement about co-operation on the NHS, something to calm the waters internally.

Another attempt to calm the waters was to defer a vote in the conference on winter fuel payments—an attempt by the unions to overturn that cruel decision made by Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves. I read earlier the words of the Labour business Secretary, Jonathan Reynolds, on the winter payment. According to him, 'there was no choice but to do this'. But of course there was a choice, and that's the point. Labour is using the word 'change' very often these days, but, much to the disappointment of so many Labour supporters in Wales, isn’t the truth of the matter that choosing to emulate the austerity policies of the Conservatives is the most prominent change that Labour has made?

My focus is on the things that matter to the people of Wales. Last week I set out what those priorities are after that listening excercise. You're right; we have to make choices, and the choices we have made are the choices that I think are in keeping with the priorities of the people. It's very interesting to look at some of the choices that the leader of Plaid Cymru has made. In the past few months, he has mentioned Keir Starmer 21 times and—

He's the Prime Minister, for goodness' sake.

He may be the Prime Minister, but this is a devolved Parliament, and the things that matter to the people in Wales—[Interruption.] Oh, it's another—

I do need to hear the First Minister's answer to your questions. [Interruption.] I need silence to hear the First Minister, please.

I'm interested in focusing on the people's priorities. I'm interested in talking about health. I'm interested in talking about education. I'm interested in talking about the economy. You've mentioned Keir Starmer 21 times. You've mentioned waiting lists eight times. That's where your priority is. You've mentioned schools once. Is that what your priority is? I think it's really important that the people of Wales know that, actually, you're far more focused on what's happening in Westminster than you are on how we can effect change here. Tata—once. Once you've mentioned Tata. I think the people of Wales are listening, and they're not interested in your attacks on Keir Starmer. They want us to fix what's happening in their communities.

Question 3, Llyr Gruffydd.

[Inaudible.]—for 25 years, but there we are.

Llyr Gruffydd, ask your question rather than make some preliminary comment.