1. What discussions will the First Minister have with the UK Government and Welsh arms manufacturers to prevent weapons made in Wales being used in alleged war crimes? OQ61568

Defence and defence exports are not devolved matters. So, we haven't had discussions on these issues. 

Thank you very much, Prif Weinidog. I’d anticipated that that’s what your response would be, but over 160 companies in Wales do supply the defence and arms sector in the UK and beyond. And if war crimes are committed with arms produced here, then it does create criminal liability under international law. That’s why Keir Starmer said recently that it would be a legal decision rather than a policy decision to ban 30 arms export licences to Israel. Perhaps there wouldn’t be criminal liability for us here in the Senedd, but, certainly, there would be a moral liability if arms produced here were used to commit war crimes.

There’s also concern about the pension schemes of local authorities and other public bodies that contravene the social partnership Act and which may be used to fund companies involved in war crimes. So, will the First Minister make a commitment that she and her Government will collaborate with the UK Government and will work with public bodies to ensure that Wales, a nation of sanctuary, isn’t part of any war crimes?

Diolch yn fawr. I note with concern—I’m sure all of us do—the events going on in the middle east, and I’m sure we all feel very upset about the situation, and our hearts go out to the civilians affected.

Just in terms of the licensing regime, UK Exports are responsible for ensuring that exports do not fall into the hands of those who are not allies. The International Criminal Court is responsible for investigating alleged war crimes. But I do think that it’s also important to note that exports are important. That’s a separate matter, but it is important, I think, that we do allow the UK to take the reigns on an issue that is part of their responsibilities.

First Minister, I concur with what you said. In my region, General Dynamics has invested more than £12 million in a new UK armoured fighting vehicle centre of excellence on the site of the former south Wales colliery, and BAE Systems, near where I live, have provided support to the people of Ukraine, which has enabled Ukraine, of course, to resist that Russian aggression. In south-east Wales, we’ve welcomed 550 jobs at BAE, 900 jobs at General Dynamics, and thousands of other jobs with other defence companies in the wider supply chain in south Wales, who are, of course, experts in these defence products, and that’s what they’ve brought to the region. First Minister, would you agree with me that defence companies like BAE and General Dynamics are making an enormous contribution to the defence of our nation, and to our economy? And I’d be interested to know what the Welsh Government is doing to promote the various science, technology, engineering and mathematics apprenticeships offered by BAE and companies like those I’ve mentioned.

Thanks very much. As you know, when we talk about defence, we talk about it in Wales in the same breath as we talk about aerospace. And that is a cornerstone, of course, of our capability. There are more than 20,000 people employed in that sector, and, of course, that is a major contribution to our export capability. It’s probably worth noting that the value of Welsh exports was £18 billion, and that is higher compared to June 2019. So, it is important, I think, for us to make sure that people have the skills that they need to prepare themselves for work in the sector, and, as you say, STEM is absolutely critical. It’s really good to see the emphasis that’s being put on that in our schools, and I'm particularly keen to see women—more women—being employed in that sector.

Since the escalation of hostilities in Gaza, we have seen slaughter and sorrow on an unimaginable scale. The official death toll in Gaza has now exceeded 41,000. That violence is now spilling over into Lebanon, with the real prospect of conflict engulfing the whole region. Israel has not listened to the many countries that have called for a ceasefire. Before it's too late, can you not see that there's a need to use all the levers possible to persuade the companies involved in supplying materials used to suppress Palestinians and fuel the Netanyahu war machine? First Minister, do you agree that a campaign of divestment, to make companies think twice before they supply Israel with weapons, is long overdue?

Thanks very much. I'm sure we're all concerend about the tensions in the middle east. It really is an escalating and very difficult situation. Of course, we have a moral obligation to make sure that arms don't get into the hands of people who don't have the same values as us. The UK Government is responsible for making sure that that happens; it's not an area that I can get involved with.