– in the Senedd at 5:12 pm on 9 July 2024.
David Rees
Labour
5:12,
9 July 2024
We will move now to the fourth group of amendments, which relate to regulation-making powers. The lead Amendment in the group is amendment 11. And I call on Peter Fox to move and speak to the lead amendment and the other amendments in the group. Peter.
Peter Fox
Conservative
5:12,
9 July 2024
Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. So, I will speak to amendments 11, 12, 15, 18 and 27. These amendments provide for a minimum period of 60 days, excluding periods of dissolution or recess of more than four days, to allow the Senedd to scrutinise draft regulations, such as powers inserted into the 1988 Act by sections 5, 9, 10 and 12 of the Bill, which purport to do any of the following: confer or withdraw reliefs from liability to non-domestic rating of hereditaments in Wales; confer or withdraw exemptions from non-domestic rating for prescribed hereditaments in Wales; and make provision in relation to different multipliers for the calculation of non-domestic rate liability for hereditaments in Wales.
At Stage 2, the Cabinet Secretary commented that the 60 days makes it a superaffirmative procedure, which can delay changes. However, by having this time for scrutiny, it will improve transparency and accountability and it's in this spirit that we encourage Members to support these amendments.
Peredur Owen Griffiths
Plaid Cymru
5:13,
9 July 2024
We're happy to support these amendments, which follow on from the recommendations made by the committee on the need to allow for a minimum period of 60 days for relevant committees to scrutinise regulations proposed under the powers in section 5. We believe that the nature of the powers sought by the Government demands an appropriate level of oversight from the Senedd, which these amendments would guarantee. Diolch.
David Rees
Labour
5:14,
9 July 2024
I call on the Cabinet Secretary.
Rebecca Evans
Labour
As we've heard, most of the amendments in this group would subject regulations made under most of the powers in the Bill to a superaffirmative procedure in the form of a minimum laying period of 60 days. A superaffirmative procedure is only used in exceptional instances where the affirmative procedure is not considered to be sufficient. And, as I set out during previous stages of scrutiny, I don't believe that that is the case in relation to the provisions in this Bill.
Amendment 11 relates to the powers in relation to NDR to define artificial avoidance arrangements, confer and withdraw reliefs and exemptions, and set differential multipliers by regulations. Amendments 12, 15 and 18 relate to powers to make regulations about council tax discounts. None of the range of existing powers for Welsh Ministers to make regulations in relation to NDR and council tax is subject to superaffirmative procedures. Whilst I do appreciate the principle underpinning this amendment, it is important to be clear about the real unintended consequences that it would risk. Superaffirmative procedures could disadvantage local tax payers in Wales by delaying or even preventing the provision of new support. This would be a particular problem where the budget available to inform the Welsh Government's approach is affected by the UK Government's autumn statement, or where we decide to provide new support in emergency circumstances. The examples that I set out in relation to the proposed statutory consultation duties are equally relevant to this matter. These examples, which I will not repeat, demonstrate how this amendment could prevent interventions to support local tax payers, which this Senedd would support. A superaffirmative procedure would also lead to a delay in addressing identified NDR-avoidance arrangements, resulting in the prolonged avoidance of liability.
Amendment 27 would apply the affirmative procedure to the commencement of the new duties for ratepayers to provide information to the VOA. It is not standard practice to subject commencement Orders to a scrutiny procedure. As I explained during earlier stages, the provisions are set out in full and available for scrutiny during the passage of the Bill. I have provided clear assurances that the provisions will not be commenced until the Welsh Government is satisfied that ratepayers can be reasonably expected to comply.
The VOA's evidence to the Local Government and Housing Committee during Stage 1 provided further assurance about the work that they are doing to ensure the arrangements are straightforward for ratepayers to engage with. I'm not, therefore, persuaded that further Senedd approval is necessary when we are ready to commence the provisions. So, in conclusion, I would ask Members to resist amendments 11, 12, 15, 18 and 27.
David Rees
Labour
5:17,
9 July 2024
Peter Fox to reply to the debate.
Peter Fox
Conservative
Move to the vote.
David Rees
Labour
The question is that Amendment 11 be agreed to. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There is objection. We will proceed to a vote. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 24, no abstentions and 25 against. Therefore, amendment 11 is not agreed.
Division number 5459
Amendment 11
David Rees
Labour
5:18,
9 July 2024
Peter, Amendment 12.
David Rees
Labour
The question is that Amendment 12 be agreed to. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There is objection. We will therefore proceed to a vote. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 24, no abstentions, 25 against. Therefore, amendment 12 is not agreed.
Division number 5460
Amendment 12
David Rees
Labour
5:18,
9 July 2024
Peter, Amendment 13.
David Rees
Labour
The question is that Amendment 13 be agreed to. Does any Member object? [Objection.] We will proceed to vote. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 24, no abstentions and 25 against. Therefore, amendment 13 is not agreed.
Division number 5461
Amendment 13
As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
The cabinet is the group of twenty or so (and no more than 22) senior government ministers who are responsible for running the departments of state and deciding government policy.
It is chaired by the prime minister.
The cabinet is bound by collective responsibility, which means that all its members must abide by and defend the decisions it takes, despite any private doubts that they might have.
Cabinet ministers are appointed by the prime minister and chosen from MPs or peers of the governing party.
However, during periods of national emergency, or when no single party gains a large enough majority to govern alone, coalition governments have been formed with cabinets containing members from more than one political party.
War cabinets have sometimes been formed with a much smaller membership than the full cabinet.
From time to time the prime minister will reorganise the cabinet in order to bring in new members, or to move existing members around. This reorganisation is known as a cabinet re-shuffle.
The cabinet normally meets once a week in the cabinet room at Downing Street.
The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
