Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

1. Questions to the First Minister – in the Senedd at 1:43 pm on 2 July 2024.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:43, 2 July 2024

(Translated)

Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative

Thank you, Presiding Officer. As you were highlighting there, First Minister, there is something happening on Thursday—it's an election, and it'll offer the people of Wales the choice. But, what we have heard from the leader of the Labour Party is complete embarrassment about the Welsh Labour Government's record. He used to go on the record and say, 'For what we would do in Westminster, look to the Welsh Government—this is our blueprint', highlighting the fact that there are record waiting times here in Wales, with one in four people on a waiting list. There's a record number of people waiting for two years or more to have an operation—21,600, which has gone up by 1,600 people. We have seen the decline in education standards as marked by PISA, and we have a stagnant economy that pays the lowest wages in any part of the United Kingdom. Is it any wonder Keir Starmer will not highlight what the Welsh Government are doing, and that's why he's so embarrassed now in this current campaign about what Welsh Labour have delivered for Wales over the last 25 years?

Photo of Vaughan Gething Vaughan Gething Labour 1:44, 2 July 2024

People in Wales have chosen to support Welsh Labour in devolved elections over that period of time because we've never taken them for granted. We now find a situation, after 14 years of the Conservatives, where there is an election. You can have more of the same from the Tories, or you can have change with a UK Labour Party, working in partnership with the Welsh Government that I am proud to lead. Think back to my first few days in office and the three groups of people that I met. With the doctors, we've now resolved the strike action. There are days of strike action taking place in England. There are the farmers, who understood and understand now that, because of a betrayal of manifesto pledges, £250 million, or £0.25 billion, if you like, that should have been invested in the rural economy has not because that money stopped in Westminster—a Tory choice to break their clear manifesto pledges. And think again about where we are with steelworkers. You'll hear a statement later today from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh language about the work that we have practically done to make sure there is a possible better deal for steel if we get past Thursday with a Labour Government prepared to invest. That is what partnership looks like, that is what this Government wants to see in the future. The way we have worked with colleagues in our Shadow Labour team to make sure we can have real conversations about the future for steel is what is on the ballot paper on 4 July. I'm proud of what we've done and I look forward to working with Keir Starmer if people across Wales and Britain choose to elect a UK Labour Government.

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative 1:46, 2 July 2024

Well, he's not very proud of you, First Minister, because he can't even mention your record here in Wales. You've highlighted things that you believe are positive here in Wales; they are but mirages, at the end of the day, built on sand that will disappear at the first gust of wind. What we know is that change is on the ballot paper on Thursday. You can move away from the economic success that the Conservatives are delivering, which has got real-terms wage growth and cutting inflation from 11 per cent to 2 per cent. We can see the fastest economic growth of any G7 country, or we can move to the uncertainty and the desperation that Labour bring, where every time they have left office, unemployment has been up, the money has gone and taxes are rising. What we want to see is making sure that the people of Wales know what that change is, and that change is moving away from the economic opportunities that are delivering for people the length and breadth of Wales with the failure of Welsh Labour here in Wales to deliver on any of its key pledges, whether that be the economy, whether that be health or whether that be education.

Photo of Vaughan Gething Vaughan Gething Labour 1:47, 2 July 2024

I do admire his wonderful stand-up comic timing in talking about Conservative successes in the economy. The No. 1 issue on doorsteps up and down the country has been the cost-of-living crisis. And it's been actually not just a reiteration of what we thought and what we knew—not just the figures of 31 per cent food inflation in three years, or 58 per cent inflation in energy Bills in the last three years—but actually it's been really quite distressing listening to those stories directly on the doorstep from people who are genuinely making choices between feeding their children and putting the heating on. And people are still skipping meals. If you went and spoke to those people and tried to tell them that there was an unalloyed record of success from the Conservatives and that the biggest risk is changing course, I think that you'd get a very robust response. 

What we are interested in is not the desperation the Member speaks of—it was a desperate speech. We are looking for a chance to turn the page on the last 14 years, a chance to invest in the economy and public services to have real stability, a chance to turn the page on the shocking incompetence of the last four or five years. Think back to the news from last week: £1.4 billion of PPE that has been wasted and had to be incinerated. That's after the test and trace programme in England—£22 billion—that a former permanent Secretary in the Treasury described as the biggest waste and the most incompetent public spending programme in the UK's history. That's the record of the Government that he has supported. That's what Andrew R.T. Davies asks people to vote for. I ask people to vote for something better. I ask people to vote for change, a different UK Government that believes in devolution, believes in partnership, to have two Labour Governments working together.

And I have enjoyed all of my campaigning alongside Keir Starmer. I've enjoyed not just appearing on the front of the Welsh manifesto but what we could do together as partners for the future. That is what is on the ballot paper on 4 July, and I look forward to the verdict of voters here in Wales.

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative 1:49, 2 July 2024

It's interesting to note that you weren't on the campaign bus that went to Paul Davies's Constituency the other day. I wonder why. Withyhedge, perhaps. But your condescending tone of talking to people about the cost-of-living crisis—. There has been a cost-of-living crisis. We all as elected Members have seen our constituents and looked them in the eye and felt their pain. But you point out to me a western democracy that hasn't had similar economic pressures. Ultimately, what I'm saying to you, First Minister, is that we are coming out of that. We have built an economic model that has delivered record rates of employment, record rates of pay settlements now over inflation up to 6 per cent as opposed to 2 per cent inflation. And what we are seeing from the Labour Party is the threat of higher taxation, slower economic growth and a following of the Welsh Labour record here in Wales that has delivered record waiting times, falling educational standards and an economy that’s stagnant. That’s the change that’s on the voting paper on Thursday: that you can go backwards with Labour, or forwards with the Conservatives. If you change the narrative economically, every man, woman and child in this country will be worse off, and that’s where I think the good sense of the people of Wales will shine through and ultimately reject Welsh Labour’s record here in Wales and the record of failure to deliver improvements that people deserve here in Wales.

Photo of Vaughan Gething Vaughan Gething Labour 1:50, 2 July 2024

I’ve enjoyed campaigning in Mid and South Pembrokeshire and I look forward to doing so in the coming few days. I also look forward to what the people of Wales do choose. As those ballots are counted through the evening of 4 July and into the morning of 5 July, we’ll see whether people will believe Andrew R.T. Davies’s rosy view on how successful the last four to five years and the last 14 years have been across the UK. There’s nothing condescending about the cost-of-living crisis. It is very real and unavoidable for far too many of our families. I just wish the Member could show a bit more understanding for what far too many Welsh families are going through and recognise the responsibility of the current UK Government in the choices that they have made. No amount of factually challenged claims about what is not in the Labour manifesto is going to change that; people understand how their lives have changed. The figures show that most people are not better off compared to 14 years ago. The figures show this is the only Parliament in history where records have been taken where living standards are lower at the end of the UK Parliament than at the start. The figures show that working people are paying higher taxes now than in the last 70 years, all on the Conservatives’ watch. I admire his bravery in trying to claim that none of these things are true, but I look forward to the verdict of the people. A real change across the UK, two Labour Governments working together for Wales and Britain—that is what is on the ballot paper, and as I say, I look forward to the verdict of the people of Wales at the ballot box.

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you, Llywydd. I’m a politician who likes to emphasise the positives in terms of the future of Wales. I say ‘yes’ to a fairer, more prosperous future and we have said ‘yes’ for decades now as a nation.

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru

The political history of Wales for nearly 30 years is one of saying ‘yes’: ‘yes’ to having our own Parliament in 1997, a big ‘yes’ to giving it some proper teeth in 2011. ‘Yes’ because we saw that we can achieve so much more given the tools to do the job. Ahead of Thursday’s General Election, Plaid Cymru says ‘yes’ to HS2 consequentials that could transform transport infrastructure in Wales. We say ‘yes’ to devolving policing and justice to give Wales a more effective justice system. It’s ‘yes’ from us on devolving the Crown Estate to make the most of our natural resources. It’s ‘yes’ on all of these, because we have a can-do attitude, a belief that this is not as good as it gets for Wales. But despite, on all of those issues, even Labour Members in Wales in this Parliament agreeing with us, why is Sir Keir Starmer so determined to say ‘no’ to all of them and ‘no’ to Wales in 2024?

Photo of Vaughan Gething Vaughan Gething Labour 1:53, 2 July 2024

I believe we will have a transformed relationship across the UK if there is a UK Labour Government, with clear commitments to ensure that the Prime Minister doesn’t ignore First Ministers across the country, and a council of nations and regions. And not just that; there's the statement you’ll hear from the economy Secretary Jeremy Miles later today on the extraordinary seriousness of what took place last week, the very real anxiety in steel-making communities, not just in Port Talbot. Previously, the Prime Minister, Rishi Sunak, would not pick up the phone to speak to Mark Drakeford. Within a matter of hours, Jeremy Miles, Jo Stevens and I had a conversation with Keir Starmer and Jonathan Reynolds about what we would do to try to move all of us into a better position. That’s real partnership, and it happened. And we believe it’s part of making a difference, of trying to see a different level of ambition for the country and a different partnership. That’s what we could have on 4 July if people vote the right way. I believe that’s what we will have. That’s what I’m working for.

It will also see a manifesto to take devolution forward: fairness on Barnett, properly reviewing and updating the fiscal framework, seeing devolution taken forward with the return of our powers and money from former EU funds, and the devolution of employment support funding. And, I believe, we will make progress on the devolution of youth justice and probation. All of those things are on the ballot paper on 4 July, and I look forward to seeing what the people of Wales vote for. If they do vote for a UK Labour Government on the manifesto we have put forward, we will take that forward, and I believe we can go back to the people and be clear sighted about the promises we have made and that we have kept, in direct contrast to the last 14 years of Tory chaos. It is not inevitable that we will win on Thursday. If people want change, they need to vote for it. 

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru 1:55, 2 July 2024

Indeed, the First Minister has spoken many times of his hopes for a more constructive relationship between the Welsh and UK Governments should Labour enter Downing Street on Friday. I'm sure the First Minister would be making an early call to Sir Keir, the Prime Minister, to congratulate him, should that be the case. But Wales is expecting much more than warm words from that conversation. The First Minister will have the luxury of not having to go through the No. 10 switchboard. I'm sure he'll have a direct line. I'm sure he could even text him, though I'd recommend he keeps a record of it. But can the First Minister confirm what Wales could hope for from that initial exchange? After a General Election campaign in which UK Labour have said 'no' to HS2 consequentials, 'no' to fair funding, 'no' to scrapping the two-child benefit cap, 'no' to the devolution of justice and policing, as even Labour in Wales have agreed with us on, is the First Minister confident that he can persuade a Labour Prime Minister to change his mind on any of these issues, or will Sir Keir, like his Tory predecessor, be hanging up on Wales's hopes?

Photo of Vaughan Gething Vaughan Gething Labour 1:57, 2 July 2024

Yet again, we don't have the election result yet, but Rhun ap Iorwerth is already disappointed about a Government that has not had a single day in office. We need to win the election first. I can tell him we are absolutely not complacent about the result. That is why we have been going out and working with, listening to and talking to the people of Wales for months and months. It's why this campaign matters so much to us. Because I do remember the last Labour Government. At the start of that, I was a genuinely young man in 1997. I remember how bad the country was then and the loss of hope that had taken place. I remember the fact that that Government saw hundreds of thousands of children lifted out of poverty. I have been part of a Government here in the last 11 years that has done our very best to try to take the heat out of what the Tories have done to us. And yet we know there are more children living in poverty now, because of direct choices made in Downing Street. It shows that the choices at these elections do matter.

I'm proud that Welsh Labour candidates are standing on a manifesto that wants to take action on child poverty and review our benefits system to make sure work pays, to make sure people are supported, to improve the investment we make in the earliest of years, to support people in work, to say 'yes' to taking devolution forward, to say 'yes' to economic stability, to say 'yes' to righting some of the injustices of our past, whether it's the Windrush commissioner, whether it's the action that we're going to take on justice in the miners' pension fund surplus, whether it's the truth on Orgreave. All of those things are on the ballot paper—a positive vision and a positive partnership. I look forward to a constructive relationship with a UK Labour Prime Minister if that is how the country votes. I won't take that for granted. If we do, though, I expect to have a UK Labour Government that meets our manifesto commitments, that keeps our promises, and I look forward to seeing how people in Wales choose to vote.

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru 1:58, 2 July 2024

It's the lack of promises for Wales that stands out so much in this election, if I might say. We know that the failure to deliver on any one of those issues that I mentioned that the First Minister ignored, let alone ignoring all of them, would represent a betrayal of Wales's interests. We can't allow Labour in Government to take Wales for granted.

From the contemptuous attitude, frankly, of the Shadow Secretary of State for Wales, Jo Stevens, to the conspiracy of silence on the billions more cuts to come that will affect a Welsh Government here, let's be honest that, on the issues of more powers and fair funding, Labour offers no real change to the Tories. We're all looking forward to throwing the Conservatives out of power, and Plaid Cymru is in the driving seat to do so, from Ynys Môn to Caerfyrddin, but making the case for Wales, whether it's scrapping the two-child cap to lift children out of poverty or transforming our transport network with HS2 money, has been the work of Plaid Cymru alone in this election. We want the best for Wales, no ifs and no buts.

It was Rhodri Morgan who once said that the Tories' relationship with Wales is based on trust and understanding: we don't trust them and they don't understand us. Well, I'm afraid Sir Keir has also shown a distinct lack of understanding. I and Plaid Cymru MPs will stand up to him and hold him to account; why are Jo Stevens and the First Minister so determined not to do so?

Photo of Vaughan Gething Vaughan Gething Labour 2:00, 2 July 2024

Well, I go back again to the fact that people in this election have a choice about what to do: after 14 years of the Tories, is it more of the same, or is it change? I'm proud to say that my party represents change across the UK. That means that we need to ask people to vote for that change; that means not sending from Wales a minor voice of protest, but sending a government to Wales, to send Welsh Labour champions who will stand up for their communities and our country in wanting to change our country for the better. That is what is on the ballot paper. And if you look at taking things for granted, we take nothing for granted in this election, nothing for granted in our relationship with the electorate. We have a manifesto that looks to provide more powers for Wales, more funding for Wales and an improved partnership, one of respect, built on respect for devolution and the different nations that make up the UK. That is what is on offer on 4 July, and I look forward to seeing how the people of Wales vote. And if they do choose to invest their trust in our party again, I hope the Member will have the good grace to recognise that verdict, and actually to work with other people who want to see progress for Wales. I'm proud to lead a Government that will continue to stand up for Wales, and not be afraid to have the conversations we need to, and equally not be afraid to be proud advocates for the partnership that I believe we could have, with two Labour Governments working for Wales and Britain; not a voice of protest but a voice of government and change. That is what is on the ballot paper on 4 July.

Minister

Ministers make up the Government and almost all are members of the House of Lords or the House of Commons. There are three main types of Minister. Departmental Ministers are in charge of Government Departments. The Government is divided into different Departments which have responsibilities for different areas. For example the Treasury is in charge of Government spending. Departmental Ministers in the Cabinet are generally called 'Secretary of State' but some have special titles such as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Ministers of State and Junior Ministers assist the ministers in charge of the department. They normally have responsibility for a particular area within the department and are sometimes given a title that reflects this - for example Minister of Transport.

Conservatives

The Conservatives are a centre-right political party in the UK, founded in the 1830s. They are also known as the Tory party.

With a lower-case ‘c’, ‘conservative’ is an adjective which implies a dislike of change, and a preference for traditional values.

Welsh Language

The language of Wales spoken by around 25% of the population. It is an Indo-European language and belongs to the Celtic group. It was made "offical" in Wales by the Welsh Language Act 1993. It is known in Welsh as Cymraeg.

Cabinet

The cabinet is the group of twenty or so (and no more than 22) senior government ministers who are responsible for running the departments of state and deciding government policy.

It is chaired by the prime minister.

The cabinet is bound by collective responsibility, which means that all its members must abide by and defend the decisions it takes, despite any private doubts that they might have.

Cabinet ministers are appointed by the prime minister and chosen from MPs or peers of the governing party.

However, during periods of national emergency, or when no single party gains a large enough majority to govern alone, coalition governments have been formed with cabinets containing members from more than one political party.

War cabinets have sometimes been formed with a much smaller membership than the full cabinet.

From time to time the prime minister will reorganise the cabinet in order to bring in new members, or to move existing members around. This reorganisation is known as a cabinet re-shuffle.

The cabinet normally meets once a week in the cabinet room at Downing Street.

Tory

The political party system in the English-speaking world evolved in the 17th century, during the fight over the ascension of James the Second to the Throne. James was a Catholic and a Stuart. Those who argued for Parliamentary supremacy were called Whigs, after a Scottish word whiggamore, meaning "horse-driver," applied to Protestant rebels. It was meant as an insult.

They were opposed by Tories, from the Irish word toraidhe (literally, "pursuer," but commonly applied to highwaymen and cow thieves). It was used — obviously derisively — to refer to those who supported the Crown.

By the mid 1700s, the words Tory and Whig were commonly used to describe two political groupings. Tories supported the Church of England, the Crown, and the country gentry, while Whigs supported the rights of religious dissent and the rising industrial bourgeoisie. In the 19th century, Whigs became Liberals; Tories became Conservatives.

shadow

The shadow cabinet is the name given to the group of senior members from the chief opposition party who would form the cabinet if they were to come to power after a General Election. Each member of the shadow cabinet is allocated responsibility for `shadowing' the work of one of the members of the real cabinet.

The Party Leader assigns specific portfolios according to the ability, seniority and popularity of the shadow cabinet's members.

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Permanent Secretary

A Permanent Secretary is a top civil servant- there is a permanent secretary in each Office/Dept./Ministry Permanent Secretaries are always Knights, (I.E. "Sir" or "Dame"). BBC Sitcom "Yes Minster" portrays Sir Humprey Appelby as a Permanent Secretary, steretypically spouting lots of red tape and bureacracy.

bills

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constituency

In a general election, each Constituency chooses an MP to represent them. MPs have a responsibility to represnt the views of the Constituency in the House of Commons. There are 650 Constituencies, and thus 650 MPs. A citizen of a Constituency is known as a Constituent

general election

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Prime Minister

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_the_United_Kingdom

Secretary of State

Secretary of State was originally the title given to the two officials who conducted the Royal Correspondence under Elizabeth I. Now it is the title held by some of the more important Government Ministers, for example the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs.