1. What assessment has the Cabinet Secretary made of National Museum Wales possibly closing National Museum Cardiff due to deteriorating conditions? TQ1039

Diolch. My officials continue to work with Amgueddfa Cymru to develop a plan to address the urgent maintenance issues at our National Museum Cardiff. I met with the chief executive yesterday, who assured me there are no plans to close the museum. However, I fully appreciate the seriousness of the situation and the significant investment needed.

Thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary, and first of all, may I congratulate you on your appointment and say how pleased I am to see culture elevated within Government, and welcome now how it's connected to social justice? I very much hope that we can work together constructively and positively to tackle the problems faced by our national institutions.

I also hope that we can all agree in this Siambr that none of us want to see National Museum Cardiff, the headquarters of our iconic national museums, have to close its doors because it is not safe for visitors, staff and our national collections. I am very pleased to hear your response, and a welcome change from some of the responses I've received from your predecessor. I hope we will now see a willingness to find solutions. And as I'm sure you can appreciate from your meeting with the national museum, they are not empty threats from the national museum. It is a very real possibility, and we must, as a Senedd, do everything in our power to stop this from happening to the home of our memory as a nation. And it isn't a problem that appeared overnight either. We need to be clear as a Senedd that there's a £90 million backlog of capital expenditure needed just to bring all of our national museums up to the standard required to care for our nation's collections for future generations.

In addressing the Senedd yesterday on delivering his priorities, the First Minister used the word 'choices' six times, and there's no getting away from the fact that one of those choices has been to cut what was already too small a budget compared to others. And if that isn't bad enough, he was also happy to defend the decision to do so.

Now, the Scottish Government, who are also at the receiving end of Tory austerity, have committed to doubling arts and culture funding. Andrew Green, the former librarian at the national library, wrote recently of the Welsh Government's 'fatal lack of understanding' and 'lack of vision' about the role of culture and the arts in how we live and how we're seen by people outside Wales. Can I therefore ask what reassurances can the Cabinet Secretary give today that such a damning critique is without foundation, and will you commit to working cross party here in the Senedd with Amgueddfa Cymru, as well as our cultural national institutions such as the National Library of Wales, to not only assess the risk to our national collections, but to put in place a plan to safeguard them and commit to adopting a new approach to culture and heritage for the remainder of this Senedd term?

Thank you very much, and thank you for your words of welcome. I too have always believed that arts are the great redeemer of life, so I'm very, very pleased to have been appointed to the culture portfolio, and I quite agree with you, that link between social justice and making sure that we expand the offer to ensure that everybody is able to access art and culture, I think is very welcome, and, certainly, when I met with my senior management team for the first time, everybody together on Monday, you could see the enthusiasm for that.

As I said, I did meet with the chief executive yesterday; I'm meeting with the chair and the chief executive tomorrow. There has clearly been a great deal of work already started before I came into portfolio to look at some specific funding over the next few years to try and help clear that backlog that you referred to. They are very old buildings, they're iconic buildings, but we know—. You only have to look at City Hall, don't you, here in Cardiff, to see the issues there, and I think it's fair to say the chief executive can see that there are similarities between the museum and City Hall. So, it's really important that I get that assurance from the chief executive and the chair about the safety of our collections. They are the people best placed to advise me on that; they're the people to tell me how best to keep safe those collections.

I think we have to recognise the budget situation, and we are where we are, we're only at the start of the financial year now, but what I have made very clear to officials is I want them to continue to work very closely with the museum, with the chair and chief exec, to make sure they bring forward a business plan. I would like to see that business plan certainly by the middle of next month to see what we can then do. I don't have a great budget, as you know, but I don't think it is just a matter for me; I think it is a cross-Government issue, but every Cabinet Secretary will tell you that, but I'm very, very clear that this is an iconic building, these collections are not ours, we just look after them as we pass through, and it's really important that we do safeguard them, and I'm very keen to work with everybody, and I welcome your commitment to that. Thank you.

Can I welcome you to your role, Cabinet Secretary? I look forward to working with you on a range of issues. I also welcome the warm words, I think, we've heard so far about the future of the national museum. Can I also thank Heledd Fychan for tabling today's question on the future of the national nuseum of Wales? Now, I do feel a bit sorry for Heledd because, whilst she clearly takes a keen interest in the museum, I think she's been undermined here by her own party. That's because Plaid Cymru, in co-operation with this Welsh Labour Government, have recently agreed to a cultural strategy, with their designated Member working with your predecessor to achieve it. Now, that strategy is out to consultation, but can the Cabinet Secretary confirm whether the strategy, as presently drafted by both parties, contains a specific safeguard to ensure the future of the museum?

Well, thank you. The consultation hasn't begun yet, and I've asked to have a pause so that I can look at that document. I appreciate the work that had gone into it by my predecessor and by the designated Member, but it hasn't actually gone out to consultation yet.

Can I also congratulate Lesley Griffiths on your appointment, and also the combining of culture with social justice in your portfolio? I think that's very exciting, and I'm sure the Equality and Social Justice Committee will want to take advantage of that.

I've just come from a public discussion hosted by the Mercury Theatre to inform their work on climate change and our seas, and it illustrates just how important it is to engage with the public on thorny issues like what can we all do about climate change. 

Referring to the national museum's challenges, we know that up to 60 jobs will need to go at museums Wales, from what they've said. Voluntary severance schemes are very clunky ways of approaching this, as it inevitably means losing the most employable staff, rather than focusing on reshaping the structure of the museum to meet its identified priorities. Now we have the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Act 2023, what discussions will you have or have you had with senior managers to ensure all staff are involved in the best way to meet the museum’s priorities with a reduced budget?

Thank you. I haven't had that discussion as yet, but I mentioned in my original answer to Heledd Fychan that I am meeting with the chair and chief exec to have a much wider discussion tomorrow, and that will, obviously, be part of it. When I did speak with the chief executive yesterday here in the Senedd, I was pleased to hear there hadn't been any compulsory redundancies, because I think that is another way that, unfortunately, sometimes we do lose the skills that are required. So, I was very pleased to hear that. Obviously, I will have a wider conversation, but I think it is really important to remind any organisation that they have a duty to adhere to the social partnership Act, and it's really important that they use that partnership approach, going forward.

Cabinet Secretary, I welcome you, sincerely, to this role. Now, this is an issue that the culture committee has expressed serious concerns about. The risk that's been outlined to the national collections themselves is stark. The associated risk to our national identity and our collective memory is profound. Now, I was heartened just now to hear you say that the arts are the redeemer of life. Now, as the new Cabinet Secretary for culture, will you endeavour to find an urgent solution to this crisis, because, would you agree with me that, if a nation cannot remember where it's come from, it cannot possibly learn from its past nor indeed face its future with hope?

I absolutely agree, and I recognise that I'm going to be a custodian for a very, very short time, and it is really important that we do all we can, but I do think that my officials and the officials working at the museum—. And I have to say their relationship was very pleasing to see; there had been, clearly, a significant amount of work done. They seemed to speak as one voice, really. I thought it was really good, the work that the two groups had done. They know what's needed to keep those collections safe, and I very much look forward, and I'd be very happy to—. I plan to do an oral statement on the priorities within the portfolio to the Senedd, probably next month, and I'd very happy to update you on those further discussions I have. But it's really important that we look at what we can do to help them. Even in these extremely challenging economic times, it is really important that we do all we can.

I'm grateful to you, Presiding Officer. Like others, I welcome the Cabinet Secretary to her role. And also welcome the bringing together, if you like, of both culture and social justice. I think it's absolutely essential and important. And I think we should also make a very clear statement on all sides of the Chamber this afternoon—I'm not sure if this is a point where we want to be trying to score points, Tom. The people of Wales should never be placed in a position where they're told they have a choice between seeing a GP or a van Gogh. Having the access to our national collections, to who we are, is important about not just us a nation, but us as a family, us as individuals, us as a community. And whenever we have these debates, Cabinet Secretary, I'm reminded of the former First Minister and the argument he made in terms of access to free school meals: bread and roses. We're not simply about delivering bread, but bread and roses as well—who we are as a people, as a country, as a nation, as a community. I think that's absolutely essential.

I very much welcome the Cabinet Secretary's commitment to come in here with a statement next month. I think that's important. But I would also like to have a statement on the future of our national collections. The chair of the culture committee has spoken already in this question, and we need a statement on the future of our national collections, but also on access to those national collections, because the grotesque debate we've had over the last few days about whether we would have a national museum open to our people in our capital city simply emphasises the fact that, even when that museum is open, we don't have access to our national collections. I want my 13-year-old boy to grow up understanding his past, and, when he understands that, I hope that he will play a part—Government's terrified to hear this—in creating our future as well.

I don't disagree with anything Alun has said. I'm going to visit the museum on Tuesday. It's probably about two years since I dropped in there, and I went to see the Richard Burton exhibition as the last thing I saw at the museum. It is really important that as much of those collections are on view as possible. Of course it's a family of museums, isn't it, right across Wales; I look forward to visiting all of the seven museums within the family, to see what is there. As you say, it's really important that everybody has access, and it's good to hear the welcome for the joining up of culture and social justice, because I too think that's really important.

Good afternoon, Cabinet Secretary. I would just add to what's been said. Funding of arts and culture is a way of creating a more equal society. Many of us have had the advantages of being able to enter into museums and art galleries for free, so not only do we have the challenge right now of an iconic building potentially closing—I hope for a short period of time—but I also wonder, in your business plan that you're looking to get from your officials, whether you're also going to be able to include in that the issue around charging for museums and art galleries in Wales. I very much hope that they will remain free and open to all. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you, and, certainly, Welsh Government is committed to not charging to go into our museums. As I say, I had a very brief discussion with the chief executive yesterday around that, and she assured me that was still the view as well. I absolutely agree. If we going to have that widening of participation in our iconic buildings and in our museums, it is really important that there is no charge. I think it's fair to say, and this will be part of the conversation I have at my meeting tomorrow, that they are looking at ways—certainly in the national museum here in Cardiff—they can create and generate some income, but charging to go in is not one of them.

Jane, Delyth and Alun have already talked about how the value of culture goes far beyond simple monetary terms, but at the risk of undoing some of that by talking about the value produced by the museum in monetary terms, falling into that trap of only attributing value to things that turn profit, we know from data in 2020 that, for every £1 the Welsh Government spends on the national museum, £4 is generated in additional spending, and that, by all accounts, is a conservative estimate. So, I'm just really interested to understand what work the Welsh Government has done to understand the economic impact of any potential closure of the national museum and any further job losses within the national museum itself.

Well, I'm sure my predecessor did undertake that work. I haven't had the opportunity to have a look at it. We often hear this, don't we, that a pound generates multiple pounds in return, and I think it is very important to understand that there will have to be several impact assessments, but I want to reassure everybody that the national museum is not closing.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

The next question is to be answered by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, and is to be asked by Altaf Hussain.