2. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on the impact of the new workplace recycling regulations that came into effect in Wales on 6 April 2024? OQ60911

Thank you, Hefin. Yes. The regulations in question will increase recycling and reduce carbon emissions by keeping high-quality materials in use for as long as possible. This will reduce waste incinerated and landfilled whilst helping our economy and the resilience of supply chains, and it represents a vital step in tackling the climate and nature emergencies that we face.

Now that the changes have been introduced, charities have contacted me about some of the difficulties that the regulations entail, particularly the cost of multiple new bins and creating the space to store additional recycling waste. So, just to give you an example, I've been contacted by the Aber Valley YMCA in Abertridwr, the First Senghenydd Scout Group, who run the CRAI Scout Activity Park, and Tŷ Hafan, who have a shop in Caerphilly, and all of them have concerns that the multiple requirements that the regulations have for storage of waste are costing them money. For example, the Tŷ Hafan shop in Caerphilly recycles or reuses 90 per cent of its donations and, therefore, although they're committed and passionate about recycling, they are having to take the burden of the additional costs, and you add onto that the fact that municipal tips don't take business waste—not in Caerphilly. So, what can the Welsh Government do to provide that kind of practical help to resolve some of those issues, particularly for those most deserving cases, such as charitable organisations?

Thank you, Hefin, for that question. It's a real practical question as well, with a policy that is very well-intentioned and will deliver real results. It's how do we help those organisations, particularly not the big public sector organisations, but those charitable organisations, third sector organisations, to manage their way through this, as well, by the way, as small businesses as well. Just by illustration, by the way, even though there are some initial costs in transferring to this new system, as we saw with doorstep recycling as well, actually, the projections are that, if we stay as we're currently going, because of the increased costs of collecting waste and the increased costs of landfill and a Bill coming down the line in the UK Parliament that will probably increase that further, we're looking at savings of £124.3 million over the next 10 years in comparison with the status quo. This is before we take into account, by the way, the costs of disposal for residual waste. So, part of this scheme is to actually give that resilience to the sector, anticipating that if we stay as we are it is going to get more expensive.

But you asked specifically about how we can help. Well, we have created—. By the way, first of all, I should say, if you want to get in touch with me, I'm more than happy to direct those individual organisations. But we've created a range of helpful practical resources to help those workplaces, including a detailed code of practice, sector-specific guidance. There are webinars with information online—really helpful, I've looked at them; they're very clear to understand—but also case-study videos, including of the type of organisations you refer to. So, for example, there's one of the case studies on a third sector charity, the Hospice of the Valleys charity shop up in Blaenau Gwent, indeed, showing how they've dealt with it without major upheaval, but just making the change very easily with support, with guidance. So, these resources can help workplaces identify what's good practice, how to do it very practically, in material separation and bin location as well, those practical things, and also how to train and upskill staff—I'm going through this in my own workplace at the moment—and optimising and rationalising systems to reduce waste and to minimise cost. But, as I say, we've got lots of organisations showing best practice. It's very easily accessible, but if you'd like to write to me, I'm more than happy to direct them individually, then, to where they can find that information. Diolch.

Cabinet Secretary, I've not met a business across my Constituency that doesn't want to recycle more. However, the businesses that I have spoken to have said, regarding the Welsh Government's engagement with business, 'Yes, they tried, but it didn't reach everybody.' So, there are businesses out there who are not aware of actually what they have to do. There are also hospitality businesses out there as well, like the pubs, who are very concerned that they'll have multiple bins out the back of their properties and they're going to have contaminated waste because people chuck whatever they want to in bins in public areas, and their businesses will be the ones being fined by Natural Resources Wales for having contaminated waste. The businesses that I've spoken to would like a bit more time so they can adapt to these changes, and also recycling companies, so they can actually provide bins with locks on them, so people cannot just chuck any sort of waste in those bins. So, I ask you, Cabinet Secretary: can we have a bit more of a relaxed view as to enforcement around this for 12 months, so we can give those recycling businesses time to provide the bins that those businesses need, and also to give the businesses who are implementing these changes the opportunity to get the bins that they want so they don't foul fall—fall foul—of any of the rules that you put in place? I'm getting tongue-tied this afternoon, Cabinet Secretary. [Laughter.]

James, thank you for that helpful supplementary question. And, Llywydd, just to point out to people, the reason I can't turn around that well is that, fit and healthy as I am, I can't turn my neck—[Interruption.] [Laughter.] But, just to explain, in case you think I'm ignoring you, or you think I'm turning my back on you, I'm permanently like this. 

If you turn your back as well, Minister, then the cameras won't see you and the microphone won't pick you up. So, stay looking straight on is my professional advice. [Laughter.]

It's a fact of my life. I can't play cricket either now as well because I can't look down the crease as I can't turn my head.

But, anyway, it's a really helpful question. First of all, it's been 10 years in the making—10 years—and we've already actually put in place a six-month delay in order to refine it in response to previously being asked. I mentioned in response to Hefin David's question the vast range of information that's out there, and, genuinely, James, direct people towards those sources because they will be really helpful. What is really interesting is that, in the surveys that we've done recently, more than three-quarters of the public surveyed, but also, SMEs surveyed, were really in support of this; they want to make it happen. So, we're trying to make it easy for them by actually saying, 'Here's where you can get the advice and so on.' But we have done the delays already.

One other thing to mention in response to that, in terms of the proportionate approach towards the regulation and the enforcement, NRW has already advised that, in line with their regulatory principles, they'll take a risk-based approach to regulation—a fair and proportionate approach. They intend to actually help, advise, guide, educate, if you like, first of all. It was the same as when it came in with the doorstep recycling in houses. Remember the fuss over that, and everybody saying, 'How on earth do we do this?' Now we're just used to it; we do it. So, that advice and support, and a fair and proportionate approach to enforcement will be taken, with an initial emphasis on providing support and guidance to help bring those businesses and workplaces into compliance. But there's practical advice out there, James, and, again, I'd make that offer: if you want to have a chat with me so that we can identify certain businesses who are struggling, I'm more than happy, then, to help guide them to where they can get that support.