The next item will be the emergency question that I have agreed to. The question is to be asked by Delyth Jewell.

Will the Minister make a statement on how Wales’ net-zero commitments will be impacted by the recent announcement from the UK Government that they are considering delaying the ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars until 2035? (EQ0011)

Diolch, Delyth. I will need to consider the Prime Minister's statement more fully prior to making a more substantive response, but the evidence is very clear: the earlier we act to deliver net zero, the lower the cost to business and communities and the greater the economic, social and environmental benefit we will all realise.

Diolch, Weinidog. Rishi Sunak's decision to weaken key climate policies is an affront to our shared future, an attempt not to rewrite history so much as to unwrite the future, to prevent it from coming into being. He is willing to throw our progress on the bonfire in pursuit of these narrow electoral gains, and we will all get burnt and scarred in that process. So, I'd ask the Minister further what assessment she's made of the impact of UK Government's reported intention that's been laid out on the Welsh automotive industry? What discussions has the Welsh Government had with the UK Government about this intention prior to today's announcement? I can guess what that answer might be. How does the Welsh Government plan to offset any negative impact of this abandonment of key climate policies? Finally, does she share my alarm and my horror that a battleground is being made out of policies that are a necessity for our survival as a species on this planet?

Thank you, Delyth. What's really clear is that any change of this scale requires proper consultation and discussion to both understand the policy and to understand the impacts. We've seen absolutely no evidence to suggest that these changes will make any difference at all to the cost-of-living crisis. We believe other progressive measures, like a social tariff for energy, would, in fact, make a much fairer and more immediate difference to those under financial pressure.

I can tell you, since Janet Finch-Saunders quoted Lord Deben earlier, that Lord Deben has a view on it. He says that they are 'stupid actions' and a 'statement of the failure of government'. He said:

'This is not swapping one policy for another in order to get to net zero, it’s a question of going back on your word, which itself is extremely dangerous'.

'These were pledges committed and they are necessary to reach net zero by 2050, which is a statutory requirement, so the government will be in the courts', he concluded. So, Janet, if you happen to meet Lord Deben again, perhaps you'd like to get him to say that to you.

What's quite clear, Delyth, is that we need, if we're to have an industrial revolution based on a green vision for the future, an industrial strategy for investment based on that, certainty for the market, certainty for investors, including from an individual householder right up to the manufacturers of heat pumps and all of the issues that go with that. We need certainty for people and for our businesses and for our communities.

I've had a brief look at the statement that was made. Amongst the many things that he appears to be rowing back on is recycling itself. So, I have this to say to that: the English Government has been appalling at recycling, and a Government that has been appalling at something that then decides that it doesn't have a target anymore speaks for itself. This is the action of a desperate Prime Minister, desperately clinging to power he neither deserves nor earned.

On Monday, the chief executive of the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders told their conference that a failure to convince mainstream buyers to switch to battery-powered models would make it much harder for the UK to meet its net-zero goals. Imagine how car manufacturers and traders feel today after Rishi Sunak's decision to defer this for a further five years. Imagine how Vauxhall and Tata feel about their commitment to invest in car battery production given the change in these goalposts. We know that businesses like certainty when making investment decisions. This is completely as you would expect. They need to be confident that the assumptions they're making today are based on firm foundations. So, Lord Deben points out that Rishi Sunak has gone back on his word, and this seems to be similar to the disastrous Liz Truss mini budget. What can the Welsh Government do in this situation to rectify the damage done today to our claim to want to lead the world on green transition when businesses are going to be completely spooked by this UK Government decision?

Yes, Jenny, that's absolutely right, and I'll just quote to you from the Government's own Skidmore review, 'Mission Zero'. He said that

'net zero is the economic opportunity of the 21st century. The evidence presented to the Review has shown that the pace of recent change has created a rush of economic opportunity at a massive, global scale.'

'We must act decisively to seize the opportunities in a global race.'

So, that's the Government's own Tory net zero Minister speaking only a few weeks ago, before the Prime Minister absolutely reversed the policies today.

There's been a series of comments from industry right across Britain saying that what they need is certainty, investment and competence, and from this Government we have none. It's too early for us to be able to say what the effect on our policies will be, but I can assure you this Government provides both certainty and investment, and a vision for a green future for Wales where we can be at the front of the global race. This is incompetence of the first order and, frankly, I am appalled.

I've just got a very brief intervention, if that's all right, Minister. The world is on fire and we have to do everything we can. The world cannot wait. I've heard some comments from the Conservative benches; I do hope somebody from the Conservative benches will be speaking on this, because I would like to hear their views on this particular announcement. But to hear this really important commitment being pushed back five years creates both uncertainty and, for our planet, means that we still are not in a place, nor will we be getting to a place, where we can truly address the climate emergency. So, I really hope that we can impress on our colleagues on the Conservative benches how important it is for you to take back—. You’ve talked about how you’ve taken some other things back to your colleagues in London, and I certainly hear that and am grateful for that, but let’s not get into what we had earlier. Let’s just work together. This is about us saving the planet, really, and about the next generation. I do hope that we can hear from you today that you will take back the concerns of the people of Wales—[Interruption.]—if you want to make an intervention, Mr Millar, please do—that you will take back from the people of Wales that we don’t think this is acceptable, that even pushing it back by five years is going to mean that there will be continual pushing back all the time.

I'm going to have to ask the Conservatives to be quiet and allow the question to continue, and if the Conservatives wish to ask a question or contribute to this question, they can do. You can put your name forward.

Can I raise a point of order, Llywydd?

Yes, amuse me. 

As a point of order, I thought that when emergency questions were tabled, they were questions that were tabled to the Welsh Government Ministers to respond to.

Yes, and the Conservatives are more than able to contribute to that questioning should you choose to do so. But I have no Conservative names in front of me.

There was a lengthy debate on this subject matter this afternoon, to which Janet Finch-Saunders ably responded. 

I have taken—. I will be calling Samuel Kurtz to contribute to the question. Jane Dodds to continue.

Thank you so much. So, I would ask the Minister what your thoughts are at the moment of really trying to address this issue with the UK Government, and your colleagues in the UK Government, to impress on them the concerns we have here across many of our benches around pushing back this target. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 

Thank you, Jane. The real tragedy of today's announcement is that we have been working closely with the UK Government on developing plans for the zero-emission vehicle mandate, including a four-nations joint public consultation on the plans, and plans to introduce the legislation across the Senedd, Scottish and UK Parliaments, and significant engagement with industry. Now, the Deputy Minister for Climate Change sought assurances from the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for roads and local transport that the mandate proposals wouldn't be diluted or delayed as recently as the four-nations transport inter-ministerial group on 13 September, which is only a week ago. So, what's quite clear is that the Government's own Ministers had absolutely no idea that this announcement was coming, nor of what it means. I have to say I was myself discussing very recently the deposit-return scheme and the extended producer responsibility scheme with the Ministers there, who quite clearly did not know that Mr Sunak was about to row back on all of their commitments on recycling. So, it's very hard to answer the question immediately, Jane. We will be looking in some depth at the announcement and what it means for us. But, rest assured, we will be both holding the UK Government to account and we will be making sure that our own mission to get to net zero by 2050 is not derailed by this ridiculous announcement. 

This, of course, is populist politics at its very worst. It's the dog whistle of politics. It is a desperate last chance for a desperate Prime Minister and a desperate Government, and I've said to the Conservatives before and I'll say it again, don't be enablers of this populism, because that will bring not only you, but politics into the gutter. We've seen it before with Conservative voices adding credence to conspiracy theories and abuse on social media—don't go there and don't allow your colleagues to go there. It's the responsibility of every single one of you.

Minister, you've answered the question I had about consultation with the Welsh Government and with others about this announcement this afternoon. It's very clear that the UK Government doesn't really care about the United Kingdom. It cares about staying in power and will do whatever it takes to do that. And the reason, of course, they want to stop the movement across to a clean future, clean energy, is because they get funding from the fossil fuel companies. That's what they're interest is in it. Whenever you look for a reason behind a Conservative decision, follow the money—follow the money. They've corrupted Government and they're corrupting our politics. Would it be possible, Minister—and I see the First Minister is in his place this afternoon—for the Government to bring forward an urgent statement on Tuesday so that we can ask questions about these matters, because it will be important?

I and James Evans in Brussels two weeks ago sat through the confirmation hearing of Iliana Ivanova, the Bulgarian EU commissioner for innovation and research, and she was talking about how the EU are going to be driving forward on research and innovation and net zero. Now, of course, since the agreement on Horizon, our research capacity is going to be largely driven by those EU decisions. The failure of the UK Government to do anything different is a failure of historic proportions, and so what we need to do is to understand what the immediate implications are for policy in terms of the environment, in terms of net zero, in terms of climate, in terms of the economy and in terms of innovation. But we also need then to understand the longer term consequences of thisr both the Government of Wales and the people of Wales.

Diolch, Alun. I think we can bring forward a statement next week subject to the Llywydd being agreeable to that, and I'm certainly very happy to do that. We will have a chance to have some analysis of the announcements. Just as you say, and I'll just quote you the ex-environment Minister, who quit his post in June, who said this as a result of the announcement:

'Putting aside the ethics or even merits surrounding the issue, it is difficult to exaggerate the political stupidity of this economically and ecologically illiterate decision by the PM.'

So, that's from a Conservative ex-Minister. So, I would say to the benches opposite: it isn't necessary to slavishly follow the party line—quite a few of your colleagues aren't, because if you actually do believe in net zero and in doing something about climate change, now would be the chance to stand out from the crowd.

Samuel Kurtz. 

Diolch, Llywydd, and I'm very happy to be called by you, when I wasn't expecting to be called this evening and to speak on this topic, and I'm grateful to Jane Dodds for making the call for a Welsh Conservative. But I think there needs to be a little bit of context put into this. The UK has reduced emissions faster than any other major economy—[Interruption.] The UK's share of global emissions has fallen—

I do want to hear the Welsh Conservatives on this question. Samuel Kurtz. 

Diolch, Llywydd. The UK's share of global emissions has fallen below 1 per cent. The UK is committed to reducing emissions faster than every other major economy—Germany, the EU, France, Australia, USA, Japan, Russia, New Zealand and Canada. Let's not forget, as well, that when the Member for Blaenau Gwent talks about Horizon and our links with the European Union, and making sure that we are at the forefront of that research, with whom are we aligning our policy on electric vehicles by delaying it by five years? We are aligning it with the European Union. Minister, wouldn't you agree that the people that you and we all represent, those poorest people would have been those who are hit hardest by an overaccelerated move towards net zero, and, by delaying it by five years, it's those poorest people who are going to be supported the most? 

Well, I suppose I shouldn't be disappointed—I can see your lines arrived just in the nick of time there—but what you said is absolute nonsense. Might I commend—? Well, I know you're reading it off Conservative Party central lines, but that doesn't make it true, unfortunately. Might I commend you to read the Government's own Climate Change Committee's report on where it thinks the UK Government is? It paints a slightly different picture to the one you're seeking to present. And might I also say this to you, and I mean this very sincerely: do you understand the basis of global economics? Because going first means you get a first-mover advantage. It means that you get the investment. It means that you get the jobs. It means that you get all of the benefits from the transition. Going slow means that you end up as a client state, always in receipt of others' innovation. That is not where we wish to be, even if it's where you do.

Unlike my colleague for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire, I'm not going to be an apologist for the Tory Party for rolling back on their promises. I would like to see some of them actually stand by the power of their conviction, instead of waiting for a text message that you've just read, or some other message that you've just read, in order to shore up a failing Government. The people of your constituency and my constituency expect a bit better than that of you.

But what I want to ask you, Minister, is, if they can do a complete u-turn on something like this, the same u-turn that they've done in terms of the environmental policies that they've rolled back, what else can we expect from them, maybe next week or the week after? Are they actually going to put the money that they've now promised to Tata, or is that going to be withdrawn next week? Because the problem here is the one that you've just described, Minister: if we can't give guarantees, Government guarantees, to businesses, then those businesses start withdrawing—there is no confidence. We know that most of the nation don't have confidence in the Tories anyway because they can't manage the economy—they've crashed it. But they risk now crashing the businesses that were going to invest here—the good work that has been done by you, the good work that has also been done by recent visits by several Ministers to ask businesses to invest in Wales. So, when you give your statement next week, Minister, can I ask that you look at the widest possible implications of this constant twisting-and-turning, ducking-and-diving Tory Government?

Diolch, Joyce. Sadly, the worst thing you can do for business is this kind of ducking and diving, shifting around. We know that, when the Conservatives withdrew the feed-in tariffs, for example, they killed the nascent solar panel industry in Wales. We know that trust was really hard to build back. We know that every single time you do a u-turn without consideration of the proper ramifications of that policy, you kill another part of the industry that you might have built up. We know that the UK, and Wales in particular, has a wealth of natural resources that could be exploited for the benefit of its people, in a way that protects the planet as well. The Conservatives have, while spouting the world-class nonsense that they talk about, failed at every point. No contract-for-difference bid from a floating wind company. That's all you need to know about your industrial strategy—it has failed. And this is the action of a Prime Minister absolutely desperate to cling on to power, who has moved the dial down the road until he knows he won't be in power, so he won't have to make the hard decisions, and a Conservative Government that simply cannot stand up to the plate and do anything that isn't for the benefit of their own millionaire frontbench. Diolch.

Minister, you mentioned the independent climate change commission, and let's remind ourselves, instead of just trotting out lines to take from party HQ, of what the commission said earlier this year. They said that the UK has lost its clear global leadership position on climate action. So, under this Conservative Government, the UK not only has gone from being a global leader to mid-table mediocrity, but today we see that the slide down the league continues. Now, I get that there's a cost to tackling climate change, and I get that we need to protect those who are least able to afford some of the changes that might be necessary as best we can. But I also get, of course, that there'll be an even greater cost if we kick the can down the road—more extreme weather events, more stress on failing infrastructure, requiring, of course, a steeper, more expensive trajectory of action as time runs out. Now, I also get that improving, for example, energy efficiency in homes creates jobs, it reduces carbon emissions. It also means warmer homes, reducing ill-health in our population. So, it's good for the economy, it's good for the environment, and it's good for people. But would you agree, Minister, that that lot over there are only interested in what's good for them?

Well, indeed, Llyr. Sadly, I would agree with that. We know that we have many companies in Wales gearing up for the air-source and ground-source heat pump revolution. This will have put them into chaos. They will no longer know what their order book looks like. We've had several other examples of this sort, where we have companies that gear up for an investment that's then ripped away by an insufficient, inadequate or, frankly, missing policy. We know that the Welsh Government needs to do more to get ourselves back onto the straight pathway for CCC, but we know that we need the UK Government to step up to the plate in terms of investment.

I haven't yet fully understood the announcement today, but we need, for example, serious investment in greening the grid and in extending the transmission lines. Does this announcement mean that won't happen as well? It's impossible to say. We know that the Government in England has now said that they are no longer wedded to recycling. Recycling. I mean, goodness me, I've got Samuel Kurtz trying to tell me you're world class and you're telling me you're not even going to recycle. I mean, this is beyond farce. I feel, Llywydd, slightly as if I'm in an episode of The Thick of It, where the opposition has been replaced by a set of comedians.

Thank you, Minister, for answering the questions.