Item 3 is a statement by the Minister for Education and the Welsh language, an update on RAAC in education. I call on the Minister, Jeremy Miles.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I’m pleased to have the opportunity today to provide Members with an update in respect of the use of reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete, or RAAC, in schools, following the decision by the UK Government to unexpectedly announce new guidance on RAAC in education settings at the end of August. 

RAAC is a material that was used in the construction of many buildings between the 1960s and 1990s across the United Kingdom. UK Governments have been aware of some of the vulnerabilities of RAAC since the 1990s and the Welsh Government has been working with other devolved Governments since 2018 in the management of RAAC. Until very recently, all Governments have considered that the guidance for the management of RAAC in buildings a robust approach in managing RAAC and in ensuring that the safety of building occupants is prioritised at all times.

As I outlined in my statement on 4 September, local authorities in Wales were made aware of the inherent structural limitation with RAAC through the Welsh Local Government Association in February 2020, following a safety alert published in 2019 by the Standing Committee on Structural Safety. There is a statutory duty on all local authorities to assess building condition and any safety risks, including structural integrity for all buildings within their school estate, and to maintain records. Requests were made for any details of any instance or awareness of RAAC as part of the annual education data collection exercise. A number of local authorities have completed their school estate reviews, and reviews are under way in other authorities.

As a result of the unexpected change by the UK Government to their experiences of RAAC in buildings in England and in light of newly provided evidence-based RAAC guidance, we have been working closely with local authorities in reviewing their school estates to identify any areas suspected of containing RAAC. On Monday 4 September, we confirmed that two schools in Ynys Môn, which have RAAC present in their buildings, would close temporarily to enable further safety inspections to be carried out. Quite rightly, and with the information available at that time, this was the appropriate decision to have been made by Ynys Môn. I’m pleased to say that, following proactive management by both headteachers, Ysgol David Hughes has today safely reopened to all learners. 

In addition to this, I am pleased to inform you that, from 7 September, Ysgol Uwchradd Caergybi provided learners with online lessons, and as of 11 September was able to partially open for pupils with face-to-face lessons for four school year groups, with three school year groups receiving online learning. This arrangement alternates each day to ensure all year groups receive the same balance of face-to-face and online learning.

Members will know that Wales has had an extensive programme for the refurbishment and building of new schools and colleges, upgrading and replacing those that are most in need of replacement for safety and quality reasons. Our sustainable communities for learning programme is delivering the biggest new school and further education building programme in Wales since the 1960s to address an ageing estate. Such is the commitment to improving facilities for our learners, the Welsh Government increased the level of capital funding available through the sustainable communities for learning programme to £300 million annually for the period of 2022-23 to 2024-25, representing an increase of 33 per cent when compared to the 2021-22 baseline. To date, more than £2.35 billion has been targeted towards new-build and major refurbishment projects.

Of the 1,463 state-maintained schools in Wales, more than 140 schools benefitted from this investment under the first wave of investment, and 200 schools and colleges are benefiting from the current wave. This, together with the fact that the Welsh Government has invested £203 million in capital maintenance over the last four years, means that local authorities and further education institutions in Wales have been able to address key aspects of maintenance to their schools and colleges. Planned maintenance of school and college buildings generally and addressing water ingress particularly are recognised as a key element in maintaining the structural integrity of RAAC buildings. The funding provided has also enabled local authorities and further education institutions to undertake the removal of asbestos in schools and colleges, which has aided access for the identification and assessment of RAAC.   

To date, Dirprwy Lywydd, there have been no further notifications from any local authority as to the presence, or suspected presence, of RAAC in schools in Wales. Last Friday, I published the latest position of each local authority as the assessment work continues, and I expect to have a more complete position by 15 September. In the meantime, we'll continue work at pace on new information provided by the Department for Education and to respond quickly to any findings arising from local authorities' review work, including any necessary assurance measures arising from that work. This includes continuing to support local authorities in any instances that might require specialist structural advice.

We are also working closely with CollegesWales to ensure we have a full picture of the impact of RAAC in the sector. Preliminary assessments of the whole estate are being undertaken and further education estates directors are working to complete assessments to provide an updated picture by the fifteenth of this month in line with schools.  

Finally, we are working closely with the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales and Universities Wales to get a full picture of the impact of RAAC in the higher education sector. Universities will be making their own assessments, working with the Association of University Estates Directors, which is conducting a survey of institutions.

I'd like to take the opportunity to thank everyone who is working in the education sector and local authorities who have been working tirelessly in light of these developments. I know too that many parents, carers and staff will have been concerned. I would like to reassure you that our priority will always be to ensure the safety of learners and staff and to keep our children and young people learning.

Thank you for your statement today, Minister. It was important that all Members, and the public, of course, were privy to all of the information, so your statement is appreciated today. Having spoken to you in the summer, I know how concerned you are about all of this, and we all are, of course. It's a major concern for parents, school leaders, young people and communities across Wales. So, I'm a bit confused as to why you're not acting faster in this regard, especially when it's affecting our learners' education across Wales. It is apparent that, once again, the Welsh Government is behind the curve and playing catch-up with the rest of the UK on this issue.

Minister, you say the UK Government unexpectedly announced new guidance, yet this Welsh Government knew the extent of the damage caused by RAAC in 2019 in Withybush Hospital and Bronglais Hospital—years ago—as well as knowing that the RAAC had been identified in the schools in Ynys Môn in that same year. Yes, the UK-wide guidance hadn't changed until recently, but you knew about RAAC's shortcomings since 2019, perhaps before. Why didn't you think it was perhaps necessary to take greater action then? I'm astounded you did not think it was necessary at that point, on the back of the evidence from these Welsh hospitals, to investigate other public buildings, including schools built in the same period. Perhaps it would have been beneficial, therefore, for a more general statement today in that regard, as just requested by many Members across the Chamber.

The Welsh Government is now attempting to pin the blame on the UK Government for not notifying them sooner about the evidence they've seen, but I'm asking you today about what you knew and what you know about these devolved issues. This is devolved; the educational estate and health estate are devolved. The guidance was UK-wide. The information that you were already privy to on these Welsh buildings was devolved. What is clear is that the Welsh Government have clearly failed to adequately monitor the state of the infrastructure in Wales, and this despite being devolved, and despite Wales already being known to have the oldest and most vulnerable infrastructure and housing stock in the UK. Yet again, you are trying to pass the buck wherever you can. Your Government should be following the urgency and decisiveness of the UK Government. They've wasted no time in appointing a dedicated caseworker for schools impacted. We in the Welsh Conservatives have already called for a website that helps improve communication for students and parents and provides that reassurance.

Minister, due to the communication on all of this needing to improve—and again, your statement helps with that today—is a dedicated caseworker and perhaps a website or something similar something that you would consider in Wales, and could you confirm whether you think that's appropriate today? Minister, parents, schools and, most importantly, learners need answers and clear timelines from the Welsh Government on just when these issues are likely to be fixed, how you plan to mitigate the crisis arising from many school closures, and how the repairs, of course, will be funded. We've already seen the effect of the pandemic on how damaging missing school time can be, and the knock-on effects that are left with school attendance now.

Minister, once, hopefully, we have a more comprehensive knowledge of what on earth is going on across our local authorities on Friday, instead of the vague announcement that you made last Friday, we need to know how will you minimise the disruption that will be caused to learners and where the money will come from for repairs. You could say, 'The UK Government', but we both know the Welsh Government benefit from buildings being handed to them at the point of devolution, so the Welsh Government need to provide us as soon as possible with a plan about how they would—if it is their responsibility—fix the problems, and where that money would actually come from. Thank you.

I thank the Member for that range of questions. Many, of course, were answered by the statement that I provided and that, perhaps, the Member wasn’t able to have read, but I’ll try and engage with the key points that she made.

I think it is important to clarify some of the misconceptions in her questions. What has not happened is a change of guidance by the Institute of Structural Engineers. The guidance has been available to Governments in all parts of UK for a number of years and has been periodically updated, and those responsible in all parts of the UK for managing public buildings have done so—have been required to do so—in accordance with that guidance.

What happened the week before term started is the provision of new information, which had caused the UK Government, two days before the start of term, to issue its revised position. That was information that I understand had been available to them for some time, but that is a matter for them. The reason the information was available to them and not to us is because the information reflects failures in public buildings in England of a sort that we have not seen in Wales. That’s why the information was in their hands and not in ours.

I think it is important to say that the RAAC in the two schools in Ynys Môn was identified as a consequence of a survey and has been managed in accordance with expert engineering guidance over the period in which the schools and the authority have been aware, which is entirely what we would expect to happen.

The timeline for this is much longer than it seems from the Member's question. Governments in the UK have been working together on this, as I said in my statement, since about 2018. The process has been different in different parts of the UK. For example, in England—she invites me to draw the comparison—the Department for Education sent questionnaires out to the heads of its schools. It has around 24,000 schools, as she will know. That's a very different process than the process that is available to us in Wales, because we have 22 local authorities with whom we have very collaborative relationships, because we're discussing with them every week the needs of their school and other estate because we invest together very significantly in that, in the way that I was describing in my statement. So, the process has been—. We are discussing with a much smaller group of people and we're able to work in a much more strategic way. That is a consequence of the way our education system is structured in Wales. It's not available across the border because there are different arrangements. I'm not making a criticism of that, I'm just explaining why that difference is in place.

Authorities have been working to understand the presence of RAAC in their buildings. As the Member will know, they have a programme of routine building survey and so they will be making planned maintenance interventions on a periodic basis, which I think is obviously a very helpful thing for them to do and a very different position, I think, from that of some other parts of the UK.

She asked for specific timelines. I have been very clear, I think, in the statement that we expect further information at the end of this month. We hope, and expect, if any other schools are identified, to have resolved that position by the end of this year. That's broadly the same timeline that the UK Government is working to, and I understand that to be broadly consistent right across the UK. I thought it was telling, if I may say, that she referred to schools being handed to the Welsh Government upon devolution. The approach that we have had has been one where I think most people would recognise that the investment that we've put into the school estate in Wales over the last decade has been very significant, because we prioritise capital investment both for maintenance purposes, for net-zero adaptations and for quality and safety purposes, and I'm very proud of that, and most Members in this Chamber I think are very proud of that work.

At the end of the day, we are prioritising the safety of our learners. I'm very pleased that, as I stand here today, it's two schools in Wales that have been identified. We'll have a fuller picture at the end of this week. And when we have that information, if there are—and I hope there won't be, but if there are schools that are identified as potentially having RAAC, if they have not already been surveyed, and many will have been surveyed, but if they haven't, we will work with authorities to put those arrangements in place. And if we identify schools that may have RAAC, we'll agree an approach with the local authority to have a particular management plan for that school, just in the way we did with Ynys Môn at the start of last week. That collaborative, cautious approach I think is absolutely the right way forward.

Thank you, Minister, for bringing this statement forward this afternoon, and also thank you for the updates during recess, including providing a personal briefing. I'm very grateful for that, because clearly it was a very worrying time to see the headlines and so on. It has been some comfort to see, with Anglesey, that first they are aware of the problem, that Llinos Medi as the leader of the council can say that they are carrying out annual surveys and therefore can collaborate with you. I think what does cause concern is the work happening in other areas where that work hasn't been identified as yet. Like you, I hope there are no further examples, but what is worrying is that we don't have a full picture at the moment.

You have mentioned a number of times the date of 15 September as a target and the hope that you will have a clearer picture by then. Does that mean a full picture? Sorry to be pedantic in terms of the use of language, but a more complete picture—. What I would want to know is when will we have definitive information, because one of the things that you mentioned in responding during the summer was that some work had been commissioned by the Welsh Government in terms of looking at the estate, but that was particularly in terms of decarbonisation, which included RAAC and so on. And I think there was some ambiguity when that statement was made in terms of where the work had reached. And certainly, if you were looking at the statement on decarbonisation, that work was supposed to start next month and to be completed within 12 months. Has that work been brought forward in terms of the RAAC element of it and then what's remaining? When will we really have that full picture, to provide assurances to staff and, obviously, pupils in these schools?

I would like to echo some of your comments on when additional information was provided to Welsh Government. It's important that there is a partnership between the UK Government and the Welsh Government and that there should be respect for the fact that we have a Government here. One of the things that I do think is very important in terms of funding is the responsibility in terms of that collaboration, if we see that the UK Government is at all concerned about Wales. Hywel Williams MP asked whether the Treasury would pay any costs related to RAAC in Welsh buildings, and the answer was 'no'. So, may I ask what discussions you've had with Welsh Labour MPs to ensure that they are pushing this case forward, and also any assurance from Keir Starmer, if he will be the next UK Prime Minister, in terms of what the situation will be when these types of things arise in future? Certainly, we must—. We shouldn't be playing politics here. The important thing is that we find resolution, and we know that Welsh Government funding is limited, and it's very important that we do have a UK Government that collaborates with us, rather than saying, 'Well, you should pay for this—we won't help out.' We have to have those assurances.

So, more than anything, if I could have some clarity, please, in terms of the timetable, the decarbonisation work and how that links to RAAC, and also in terms of the case for funding. Thank you.

I thank Heledd for those further questions. Could I just say—? In terms of the relationship question, the reason that I was answering a lot of questions about this last week was because people wanted to know why the decision was made on the first day of term. That's why. I was just trying to explain the timetable to people. It was a fair challenge for a journalist to present to the Government, but I needed to provide honest answers to people as to why the situation arose. It wasn't a political reason, but it was just to explain to people what the situation was.

In terms of having a full picture, since then I called for two things from the Government in Westminster. The first thing was for more information regarding the technical assessments that underpinned the information that was shared with us on the Sunday evening. The second thing was to hold a meeting of the cross-governmental committee—the Welsh Government was represented on that during the summer—to call for a further meeting of that so that all Governments were working with the same information base. It's important that we do collaborate and share information; particularly if it's happened to one Government but not to another, it's important for us to be able to see that. And, in fairness, both those things have happened since we called for them. So, the information has been flowing more easily since then.

In terms of the information at the end of this week, well, there are three categories. The first category is, 'Unfortunately, we have found more RAAC.' Hopefully that won't happen, but it is a possibility. On the other hand there's, 'We are entirely certain that we have no RAAC', so that's assurance and that's clear information. But there will be a middle category that's, 'Well, here is a school that may have a RAAC risk—we need to undertake more detailed survey work in order to be sure about that', but that will be a group with fewer schools. We will be able to define those schools. As I mentioned earlier, if work has already happened in terms of surveys, well, maybe we don't need to do that again. It depends on the circumstances: how many there are, what the age of the buildings is—those kinds of things are important. So, that's a fuller picture. The details will be clearer, but maybe we'll need to undertake further tests and maybe further work on schools in order to be completely sure. So, that's the information that we will have by Friday. But in publishing what we did last Friday, we were eager, and local authorities as well wanted to be transparent about where they were in terms of this process.

In terms of the work that happened before the summer, the survey that I mentioned in the statement—. As you mentioned, decarbonisation was the main purpose of that, but the kind of questions that arise in the wake of that, namely the age of the building and what materials were used to build it, whether adaptations have been since then—that's the kind of information you'd use to understand whether there is a risk of RAAC. There is more work to do, then, if you belive that that category is appropriate. And we've included RAAC, at the start of the summer, as part of that process as well, so that we have independent assurance. But the work will bring forward those details and we'll be able to tell you, 'This is the work that's going on with the local authorities', and further survey work that will be undertaken on schools where there is a question. So, that's the information base that will provide further certainty, and we will have another source of information as well. And I hope that will give you more certainty.

In terms of funding, I think the First Minister made a very clear statement during First Minister's questions earlier this afternoon where he said where he believes the responsibility falls, and he's right to say that, of course. These decisions were made in a period before the schools were given to us, as the Conservative said in her question. So, that is the principle. So, if anyone has an influence on the Westminster Government to undertake that position, I'd be pleased for their support.

Cement can best be described as a hydraulic adhesive. It consists of nothing but special glue that binds sand and gravel together, forming a stone-like hard element. By itself, cement is of very little use. However, when you blend it with aggregates, such as sand and gravel, it forms concrete. So far, so good. Concrete is the most used man-made ever invented. Unfortunately, people tried to do things to it to reduce the cost of making it. The problem with reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete does not come as a surprise to me. It follows a long list of previous problems with non-traditional building materials. How many people remember high-alumina cement, which was in a number of schools that ended up with holes in the cement? How many people remember pre-cast reinforced concrete, where the houses had to be taken down because they became unsafe for people to live in? How many people remember Wimpey no-fines? The houses are still there, but it's very, very difficult to get a mortgage on them. How many people remember the steel houses, which we had in Swansea, which again had to be taken down? I could go through a further list of this, but it would be far too long. All I'm asking is for the Welsh Government to specify only traditional building materials be used in the construction of school buildings. It might cost more, but they'll last.

I thank Mike Hedges for that, and I always appreciate the technical detail that he brings to his questions, and I'm grateful to him for that. He's identified a number of points in his question. He will know this, in any case, from his experience, but we build schools differently in Wales from the way that they do in England. We allow for greater collaboration, if you like, as I was pointing out a little earlier, with our local authorities to ensure that the construction of our new school buildings, for example, reflect the appropriate standards. We are in a pretty much ongoing discussion, really, and are continuously, with the Consortium of Local Authorities in Wales, who he will know—the Welsh local authority construction consortium—in relation to questions around standards and design standards and materials and other questions. Indeed, over the last nine months or so, my officials have been working with the sector, actually, in reviewing those standards across the board, really—design standards and space standards, as well as others. We do that periodically to refresh that as part of our sustainable communities for learning programme. He will also know that we are commissioning the building of some new primary schools using natural materials, so I think it is important for us to be able to meet our environmental goals by taking that sort of initiative as well. But the new standards, which my officials are discussing with the sector, will be specific to schools in Wales. Those discussions have been going on for some time, as I say, and they will directly support our commitment as a Government, which I know that he shares, to make sure that our schools in Wales are fit for the twenty-first century in all respects.

Thank you for the statement, Minister, and for your earlier written statements. I was pleased to see that Bridgend County Borough Council had not found any RAAC in their schools. However, does that mean that our schools are safe? Minister, how confident are you that all school buildings are safe, regardless of whether or not RAAC has been identified?

On a recent visit to Brynteg Comprehensive School I witnessed a huge steel support structure holding up the ceiling in the headmaster's room. While I fully understand the need to prioritise dealing with the RAAC issue, we must also ensure that all of our school buildings are 100 per cent safe for pupils and staff. Minister, what steps should be taken to review the structural integrity of school buildings across Wales? And finally, has the RAAC issue prompted any changes in policy on how to deal with ageing buildings going forward? Apparently, we manage asbestos and we manage RAAC. Do you accept that we can't continue to paper over the cracks? Diolch yn fawr. 

Well, I think the context of the Member's question is really important. So, the answer to his question, 'Are our schools in Wales safe?' is, 'Yes, they are.' And I think we need to be very clear that we don't allow the implication to arise that simply because there is RAAC in a building that it is automatically unsafe. The Institute of Structural Engineers guidance, which has kept pace, if you like, with developing knowledge over many years, on which we've spoken with them in the last week or so to say, 'Does this new information cause you to change that guidance?'—. And the answer is, 'No, the guidance is still good guidance.' And the whole point of it is to help building owners, building managers, manage the estate safely when it contains RAAC. So, I think it's really important that we establish that point as well. 

It's also true to say that local authorities right across Wales, in relation to each of their schools, and, indeed, each of the buildings for which they are responsible, will have a continuing programme of survey and maintenance. So, Ynys Môn is a very good example of this. RAAC has been known about in the school because the authority properly did the surveys and have identified those areas, and have been managing the building in accordance with that guidance. So, right across Wales, there are programmes in place to manage public buildings in that way. 

In relation to the last question, 'Do I think there needs to be a change of guidance?' Well, we've tested that particularly with the Institute of Structural Engineers. What is happening now in Ynys Môn, and in other buildings, and if we were to discover in another school the presence of RAAC, which obviously, as of today, we haven't, but we will know more in the coming days, what's being done there is applying those professional standards with that new knowledge. It's a cautious approach, it's a case-by-case approach in many, many ways, but our commitment in Wales has been really clear, and that's exactly why we invest so much in planned maintenance and in capital upgrade, and very much more even than that in our new school and college building programme.

I'm grateful to the Minister for his statement today, and for the opportunity for a personal briefing and conversation during recess. It's a very worrying situation across Wales, but, as it happens, the two schools identified were in my Constituency and a decision was taken not to open them at the beginning of term. And I would like at this point to express my thanks to Llinos Medi and to Anglesey council for their prompt response, and to thank them for the proactive work that they've done, as we've heard, in undertaking the necessary RAAC assessments, so that they knew what needed to be done when the change of guidance came at the last minute. I'm extremely grateful to staff, headteachers, management teams at Ysgol David Hughes and Ysgol Uwchradd Caergybi for responding so quickly and ensuring that the education could continue. The challenges are greater at Ysgol Uwchradd Caergybi than they are at Ysgol David Hughes now, but the work that has been done to ensure that education can continue is extremely important. 

I did have some questions about funding, and questions as to how this could have happened with so little notice before the beginning of term, but those have have already been asked. But two very brief questions: what steps are the Welsh Government taking to support Ysgol Uwchradd Caergybi specifically to ensure that they can open their doors fully as soon as possible? And further, in moving forward, what assurance can the Minister give that any maintenance work can happen in a way that won't interfere further with the education of pupils? 

Well, this is an opportunity for me to reiterate my thanks to the school, to the headteachers and the staff for working under great time pressure, but in such a creative way, to find ways to reduce the period for which the schools have been partly closed, and to the council and to Llinos Medi and the team there too. They have worked very quickly, and have also collaborated with us, so I thank them for that.

In terms of the next piece of work, we're still waiting to hear from the experts who have been in the schools at the end of last week. We will have, or the council will have, a report from them. They are experts in the field, and they're using the official guidance to look to see whether things need to be changed in the light of the new information that emerged on Sunday evening. So, we're still waiting to hear what comes from that. Because we have a joint plan with councils of co-investment, there is an opportunity nearly every week to have these kinds of conversations anyway. So, the capital plan is a significant one. If we need to reprioritise within that in order to be able to meet some of the problems that are arising, well, we have an opportunity to do that jointly. So, those conversations are happening consistently.

In terms of work that we're doing to support both schools at present, of course, Ysgol David Hughes has reopened entirely. We have been working with Ysgol Uwchradd Caergybi to find alternative options in terms of local buildings to ensure that we can increase the numbers of children who can have face-to-face education. At present, there is a lot of online learning happening, of course, and school groups coming in alternately, so that they can have the experience of being in school. But we're trying to have a strategic response to that in terms of which alternative buildings are available locally that could provide a temporary space to increase the numbers having face-to-face education.

So, that's the main priority at the moment in terms of alternative arrangements, and we'll see what comes back from the engineers to see what further steps need to be taken in the school as well. It's important to remember that RAAC isn't present in all parts of either of the schools—it's in specific buildings. So, there are options to be able to work around that as well.

And finally, Rhys ab Owen.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Wales will not forget the tragic consequences of ignoring safety concerns involving schools. Yet, despite this, it appears to me that the UK Government's response appears to be driven largely by ideology. We are in this situation—let us remind ourselves—we are in this situation due to UK budget cuts to school repairs, vital information not being shared and the buck being passed to others. I couldn't believe it when I read last week that the UK education Minister believed that headteachers would be able to identify RAAC in their schools. Like the Majority of us, I'm sure they hadn't heard of RAAC by the end of the summer term, let alone being experts in concrete to identify which type it was. When does the Minister expect the Welsh Government surveys to be completed? We are seeing, in crumbling concrete over the heads of our children, the result of 13 years of austerity in the UK. These policies have consequences. It's also the consequence of a UK Government who wants a smaller state and dislikes details. What steps are the Welsh Government taking to ensure that vital information is shared promptly? Diolch yn fawr.

I share the priority that the Member attaches to making sure that our school estate in Wales is fit for the twenty-first century. I think that his question may not pay, if I may say, quite enough regard to the different policy choices that we have made in Wales, even within that wider UK context, which he, I think, fairly describes, of having a UK Government that hasn't prioritised public investment for the last 13 years. But I think, in Wales, we see the evidence of the benefits of devolution, when you can take different decisions and apply different priorities to the funding that you have available, which is why, both from the previous band and the current band of investment in schools in Wales, we're looking at around 340 schools that will be entirely new or substantially refurbished. And I think that it's a policy that we're all proud of in this Chamber, isn't it, really, and I think it's a policy that this Welsh Labour Government is certainly very passionate about.

I do think the point that he makes about how we can work with schools in relation to this is important. I would say that we are able to take a more partnership-based approach in Wales because of the respect that we pay to local authorities. We still have—. Over the border, because of the structure of the school system, there are many, many schools, obviously, which operate outside the purview of local authorities, so that, I think, is why the Department for Education is having to engage with individual heads. There are 24,000 schools or so, I think, in England, so that is quite a task. Obviously, in Wales, we have a smaller number of local authorities, who understand their building stock very well, so we're able to work very quickly with them. As I say, by the end of this week, we'll have more information.

And he asked me, finally, 'When will we expect this to have been entirely resolved?', well, I'm very much hoping that we will not have any more schools identified as having RAAC, obviously, but, when we have the information, by Friday, we'll engage then with specialist structural engineers based on that information with local authorities and, also, I should say, the further education institutions, because they're also providing information to us within the same time frame, and we'll do any urgent appraisals that need to be made then of any newly-identified instances—I very much hope there won't be any—and we anticipate that work will all then be completed by the end of December this year, which, I think, is broadly the same timeline that other parts of the UK are working to as well. 

I thank the Minister.