Questions from the party leaders now. The leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. In your earlier answers, First Minister, to questions, you seemed to blame all of the ills of Wales on the UK Government. One of the figures that came out last Thursday was quite clearly an area that you have complete control of, and that is the increase in NHS waiting times. An extra 6,000 people were added on the pathway list; now, nearly 750,000 people in Wales are on a pathway. We also saw a miniscule drop in those waiting two years or more; in excess of 30,000 people are waiting two years or more. One in five people who are on an NHS pathway here in Wales are waiting one year or more—one year or more to see themselves progress on those waiting lists. What hope can you give to those individuals who are waiting two years or one year, and those who have been added to the waiting lists time and time again, as each month passes by, that these lists will decrease and that by the end of the year we will see the elimination of the two-year waits here in Wales?

The hope that we offer people is to recognise the enormous efforts that the health service is making and the success that the health service is seeing in those efforts. Two-year waits did fall again last month for the thirteenth month in a row, 52-week waits for out-patients fell again last month, and department performance improved last month. In the figures, challenging as the situation is, there are signs that the investment that the Minister has made, and the plan that she has for the NHS in the post-COVID period, is succeeding. Just to think of it in this way, to help the Member, in the six months to March 2023, the last full year, waiting lists in Wales decreased by 2.6 per cent, while they increased in London by 2.7 per cent—a 5 percentage point gap in performance to the advantage of the Welsh NHS.

First Minister, I want to know what's going on here in Wales and what hope you're offering to people here in Wales. But if you want to use the English statistics, 5 per cent of people are waiting one year or more in England and 20 per cent of people on a waiting list are waiting one year or more in Wales. You talk about the decrease in two-year waits; 261 people came off that two-year wait. There are still over 30,000 people waiting two years or more here in Wales. In England, they have all but been eliminated, and in Scotland as well, so this is an outlier that's happening here in Wales on your watch. This isn't my comment; this is the Royal College of Surgeons' comment, when they say that these figures are a 'wake-up call' to see what the Welsh Government can do now that they might have a bit of space before we get into the winter pressures.

So, again, what actions are the Welsh Government taking to reduce these stubbornly high waiting lists, and will you stand by a commitment to say that two-year waits here in Wales will be eliminated by the end of this calendar year? It's not much to ask, because you used to have a target to eliminate those two-year waits. Have you given up on them?

I notice that when it suits the Leader of the Opposition to compare what happens in Wales and England, he does so at every opportunity, and the minute I point out something else to him, he tells me he's not interested in what happens elsewhere—he wants to focus on what happens in Wales. So, let's focus on what's happening in Wales for a moment. As I've said to him, those long waits are falling—they are falling in in-patients and they are falling in out-patients. Diagnostic waits and therapy waits continued to fall, particularly in therapy waits, last month. And the median time—the standard time—it takes to be treated in the Welsh NHS, from the minute your doctor refers you to the minute your treatment is concluded, is 20 weeks. That is the standard experience of a Welsh patient: from the minute they are referred to the minute their treatment is over, it takes 20 weeks.

That's why, when the Member always comes here to talk down the NHS, to tell us that there's nothing good he can find to say about it, it does not resonate in the experience of people who rely on the NHS, who know how hard people are working and who know how exhausted our staff are from the enormous demands that they have faced in recent times. The Welsh Government backs them; it backs them with investment, it backs them by resolving pay disputes without the strikes that we have seen in England and will continue to see in England, and it does so by having a commitment to that service that only a Labour Government will ever provide.

We spend less in Wales per head of the population on health than any other part of the United Kingdom—England, Scotland or Northern Ireland. I used the figures about one-year waits and the elimination of two-year waits in England. You, on two questions, failed to answer whether you'd commit to wiping out those two-year waits here in Wales. Why won't you give some hope and some inspiration to patients that they will progress through, and that those 32,000 that are waiting two years or more, or indeed the 150,000-odd people who are waiting one year or more, can see some progress in their waiting times?

The comment I put to you about it being a wake-up call wasn't my comment, it was the Royal College of Surgeons' comment. Those are people at the coalface who are dealing with these patients day in, day out. I offer you the third and final time today, First Minister, to give that commitment to get rid of the two-year waits in the NHS. I hear some laughing coming from the Labour benches. For the 31,000 people who are on a two-year wait, that's no laughing matter. It isn't unfair to ask the First Minister, who's responsible for the NHS here in Wales, to commit to getting rid of those two-year waits, which has happened in Scotland and happened in England.

First of all, let's make sure that the record accurately reflects spending, because what the Leader of the Opposition said is simply untrue. Spending per head of the population on the NHS in Wales, and on health and social care in Wales, is higher than in other parts of—[Interruption.] I said health as well. On health it is higher—health and social care. It is higher in Wales than elsewhere, not as the Member said in his opening remarks to me.

The health Minister has set out our ambitions to reduce long waits, including two-year waits and much more besides. Of course we stick to those commitments and we commend all those people who work so hard every day in our health service to try to make sure that those commitments are delivered.

Leader of Plaid Cymru, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. One of the things that's been wonderful since becoming leader of my party are the warm words coming from people who are pleased to see a Member representing a north Wales Constituency being a leader here in the Senedd. I strongly believe in uniting Wales, every part of the nation, but I'm very proud to represent the northernmost constituency. It gives one a different perspective in many ways, including in terms of north-south travel.

Last week, it was nearer breakfast time than teatime by the time I got home from Cardiff after a six-hour rail journey. I don't think I've ever seen Bangor station platform at 3 o'clock in the morning before. But I'm not here to complain about my own journey. It is striking, however, when I and others in this Senedd raise our frustrations about transport, the flood of people raising their own concerns about delays, about cancelled trains, like the couple in their eighties from my Constituency recently who had to stand for two hours without access to the toilet on the train from the north to the south. Does the First Minister think that the current rail service offered by Transport for Wales is acceptable?

No I don't, Llywydd, and nor does the Minister. The Minister said very recently that the challenges facing Transport for Wales mean that the service that has been provided in some parts of Wales has not been of a standard that passengers are entitled to expect. It's why the Deputy Minister has been meeting rail users, particularly in those places where those difficulties have been greatest, to hear directly from those passengers, and to work with them and others to improve the service that is available here in Wales. There are a series of reasons that lie behind the difficulties that have been experienced. Travel patterns have altered since the pandemic—that is certainly true on the railways, as it has been in bus services, as we have discussed here on the floor of the Senedd. The rail industry everywhere is having to cope with changes in passenger numbers on the one hand and reduced investment by the UK Government on the other. It's why passengers in his part of the world, on the north Wales coast, have recently had their mainline services cut by Avanti West Coast, which itself puts additional pressure on those local services provided by Transport for Wales.

I'm pleased that the First Minister admits that there is a problem—I think it's quite obvious that there is a problem—and it was good to hear that the Deputy Minister also admits that things aren't good enough. But the worry I have is that trajectory that we're on. These are serious issues: four in 10 trains in Wales delayed, and the latest 12-month figures showing a deteriorating picture. Surely we should be able to expect that things are getting better. In April, I think, the independent watchdog Transport Focus said the situation was untenable, calling on Transport for Wales to put a robust plan in place outlining how they'll restore services and get things back on track for passengers. When Transport for Wales, remember, took over from Arriva in 2018, they said that we would be promised a rail service transformed within five years. Now, five years is up; it has clearly not happened to that timescale. When can passengers expect to see genuine and sustained improvements in the service?

I don't want to say to the Member that there will be an easy pathway to those improvements. As we've rehearsed on the floor of the Senedd here recently, Network Rail have published an investment prospectus that puts Wales at the very foot of the investment league and that they themselves say will lead to greater cancellations and more delays in the future as a result of a plan that they have published. That is the essential context within which Transport for Wales also operates.

But, in sharp contrast to the lack of investment in Wales by the UK Government, we are investing over £1 billion in the transformation of the core Valleys lines in south Wales alone, with new trains on the Transport for Wales network in every part of Wales, more new trains in north Wales than in any other part of Wales, and more to come—trains built in Wales, trains being operated in Wales, and trains that will lead to a better service for passengers. But the context within which Transport for Wales operates is sharply different to the one envisaged five years ago, let alone the experience that has happened over those five years. I'm not going to stand here and say to any Member that the pathway from where we are to where we want to be will be one that can be travelled quickly.

The First Minister rightly points to the problems of infrastructure and the lack of investment over the years. The Member for Aberconwy says that it's about the rolling stock. Well, rolling stock will get better, but we absolutely need to get the track better, and I'm afraid successive Labour and Conservative Governments have failed over a period of decades to make sure that Wales has its fair share, or anywhere near its fair share, of investment in improving rail infrastructure in Wales. It's that lack of infrastructure that's led to the lack of electrified lines—none at all until recently—and the lack of basic links, like from Pwllheli to Bangor. There used to be a train there. There is still a train, but it takes eight hours. That's not the kind of rail service that we want in Wales.

Meanwhile, taxpayers are still expected to contribute towards the high speed 2 line. That is the very definition of economic injustice. This is a rail development completely outside of Wales, but Rishi Sunak and Keir Starmer seem content with that injustice. At the recent Welsh Labour conference, the Labour leader refused to commit to granting Wales its fair share of HS2 funding, should he enter No. 10. Will the First Minister use his direct line to Keir Starmer to ask why, when it comes to this basic economic fairness, he chooses to side with the Tory Government, and not the people of Wales?

I think it is a significant misrepresentation to conflate the positions of a Prime Minister in office, making decisions today to deny Wales the funding that Wales ought to have through the Barnett formula as a result of HS2 investment, and a government that hasn't even been elected yet. Sir Keir Starmer will be weighing up the options that an incoming Labour government will have in front of it when it inherits the economic catastrophe that has been the record of the Conservative Government. He's not going to be offering a long shopping list of all the things that he will or will not do on the day that he comes into office, and nobody should mistake that for a positive decision not to do something. All he is saying is that, at this point, with a year to go to an election, he will be having to, in a responsible way, make decisions in the context in which he will find himself. The view of the Welsh Labour Government and the view of the Senedd has been very plain, and it's not just our view, as we know, it's the view of many independent commentators far beyond this Chamber: HS2 is not a scheme that benefits Wales. There ought to have been a Barnett consequential, in the way there has been for Scotland. Keir Starmer is in no doubt at all about our position on that issue, and I will make sure that we continue to articulate it to him.