3. Statement by the First Minister: The Legislative Programme

– in the Senedd at 3:16 pm on 16 July 2019.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 3:16, 16 July 2019

(Translated)

The next item is a statement by the First Minister on the legislative programme, and I call on the First Minister, Mark Drakeford.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour

(Translated)

Thank you very much, Llywydd. This legislative statement sets out the Government’s plans for the Bills we will introduce over the remainder of this Assembly term. Our intention is to help create a more equal Wales, rooted in economic, social and environmental justice.

We will press on with important measures in respect of education, housing and transport that will lead to improvements across Wales. We will strengthen local government and protect children’s rights. At the same time, we will press on with the essential preparations needed should we leave the European Union.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:17, 16 July 2019

Llywydd, over the course of the last 12 months, through the efforts here of the Executive and the legislature, we have introduced, considered and passed an unprecedented volume of legislation, including more than 150 statutory instruments needed to correct the statute book against the possibility that the UK would have left the European Union by 29 March this year. It required a huge amount of effort on behalf of the Welsh Government, the Assembly Commission and Assembly Members to complete this programme of work on time, and I want to put on record my thanks to the very many officials, Members and committees that have made that possible.

Should we leave the European Union, we will acquire thousands of new powers and functions in policy areas that were previously set by EU laws. And that means, Llywydd, that the impact of leaving the European Union on our legislative programme is not yet over. The ongoing question about the manner of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU means no-one can predict with any certainty what the autumn will bring and whether and what sort of additional legislation may be needed. We have, however, been able to assess whether we are now in a position to bring forward a Welsh agriculture Bill and an environmental principles and governance Bill in this term, in the event the UK leaves the European Union.

We have consulted on environmental principles and governance in the context of Brexit. We remain committed to legislate to address the principles and governance gaps that will arise in the event that the UK leaves the European Union. However, this remains a complex matter and we are in ongoing dialogue with other administrations across the United Kingdom about how we can work collaboratively to achieve a coherent approach and we will continue to report to the National Assembly as the developing picture becomes clearer.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:20, 16 July 2019

In terms of a Welsh agriculture Bill, the delay in resolving Brexit means that we will now focus on the preparation of such a Bill in this Assembly term for introduction in the next. This will be an opportunity to be ambitious and wide-ranging, going further than simply confining legislation to farm support schemes to look at wider issues such as the rights of tenant farmers. My colleague, Lesley Griffiths, launched 'Sustainable Farming and our Land' last week. It sets out ambitious proposals for the future, including paying farmers for the actions they can take to respond to the climate emergency, reducing emissions and capturing carbon. I look forward to the conversations that will take place throughout Wales in agricultural shows and in other locations over the coming summer. Using the results of this consultation, we will bring forward a White Paper before the end of this Assembly term to pave the way for legislation.

Llywydd, while we have been preparing for Brexit, we have continued to legislate for important domestic matters, securing the administrative framework for our childcare offer to provide much-needed support to working families, and establishing a minimum unit price for alcohol, to be introduced in the new year. We have introduced legislation to protect children by abolishing the defence of reasonable punishment—a Bill currently being scrutinised by committees here—and introduced a Bill to secure key reforms to the health and care system.

Later today, I hope this Assembly will pass the Legislation (Wales) Bill, the first Bill of its kind in Wales, which will support the interpretation of Welsh legislation and improve the accessibility of Welsh law.

Llywydd, the last 12 months have also been noteworthy for legislation promoted here other than by the Welsh Government. The Public Services Ombudsman (Wales) Act 2019 was the first committee Bill to gain Royal Assent since this Assembly gained full law-making powers. The Llywydd’s own Senedd and Elections (Wales) Bill has reached its amending stages. It will have far-reaching implications for this institution and for young people throughout Wales, as it extends the franchise in Assembly elections to 16 and 17-year-olds.

Turning, Llywydd, now to the coming year, the Government will also bring forward legislation to give the vote to 16 and 17-year-olds in local government elections as part of the Local Government and Elections (Wales) Bill that we plan to introduce. That Bill will also strengthen local authority democracy, accountability and performance, and it will establish a consistent mechanism for collaboration and joint working, including arrangements for transport. This will empower local authorities to deliver modern, accessible, high-quality public services for and with the local communities they serve.

Llywydd, we will also bring forward in this next year a GP indemnity Bill to complement the current scheme, which was introduced in April. The Bill will ensure all clinical negligence claims, whenever they were reported or incurred, are covered by our liability scheme.

Llywydd, this National Assembly has taken many important steps to improve the private rented sector and make it a positive choice for tenants. Unfair fees charged by letting agents will be banned from September as a result of a law passed here. And I'm pleased to report this afternoon, Llywydd, that we can now press ahead with the implementation of the Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016, which will ensure tenants have access to a wide range of benefits, including protection from retaliatory evictions.

But there is more that we can and will do, including responding to the widespread concerns about no-fault evictions. Last week, we launched a consultation setting out a series of proposals to extend the notice period landlords would have to give before they can take back possession of a property. Based on the outcome of that consultation, we intend to bring forward legislation in this Assembly term to address the no-fault evictions issue.

Llywydd, we will introduce a public transport Bill in this Assembly term, building on the proposals in the 'Improving public transport' White Paper. This Bill will be a key part of wider reforms to bus services here in Wales and it will help us to achieve our ambition of creating a truly integrated public transport network, planned and provided in the public interest, and which meets the needs of the travelling public. The White Paper also sought people’s views about a series of proposals to modernise the licensing system for taxis and private hire vehicles to respond to this rapidly changing market. Aspects of those proposals received clear support, but they also produced ideas, from the industry, from trade unions, from local authorities, to go further in addressing the challenges faced by the industry. These further ideas, coupled with developments at a UK level, have led us to conclude that more time should be taken to finalise our approach to taxis and private hire vehicles. Legislation on these aspects of the White Paper will now be brought forward the other side of the next Assembly elections.

Llywydd, this Government is committed to reforming and improving education in Wales. We have already made significant progress in relation to our ambitious reform agenda. We have changed the system for student support and introduced the most generous package of support in the United Kingdom for undergraduates, postgraduates and part-time students. We have changed the law to introduce a new education and support system for children and young people with additional learning needs up to the age of 25. We have reformed teacher training, and we have delivered the most ambitious programme of investment in our schools and colleges for more than 50 years. As part of this reform agenda, we have also made significant progress in developing our groundbreaking new curriculum, which will be rolled out in schools in Wales from September 2022. In order to ensure that that happens, we will now bring forward a curriculum and assessment Bill to set out in statute the principles, freedoms and structures for that new, ambitious curriculum.

And, in a separate Bill, Llywydd, we will also legislate to set up the tertiary education and research commission, to replace the higher education funding council here in Wales. The commission will strengthen national and regional planning, it will reinforce the link between research and education, and it will deliver a post-compulsory education and training system that is better placed to bring the sector together to provide genuine lifelong learning and skills for Welsh people.

Llywydd, as I announced last week, we will place social partnership on a statutory footing by bringing forward a Bill before the end of this Assembly term to enshrine the current non-statutory social partnership model in law and to ensure that agreements reached in social partnership are clearly enforceable.

These are the confirmed legislative ambitions of this Government for the remainder of this Assembly term.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:29, 16 July 2019

(Translated)

Llywydd, to conclude, these plans will introduce positive and innovative improvements for the people of Wales. The Government's programme demonstrates that we are determined to drive forward ambitious plans until the end of this Assembly term, notwithstanding the uncertainty that we face. I commend this legislative programme to the Assembly. Thank you.

Photo of Paul Davies Paul Davies Conservative

Can I thank the First Minister for his statement outlining his priorities for the forthcoming year? Today, he has announced more of the same from this tired Welsh Labour Government. Last year, the former First Minister announced a range of new Bills, and where have we got with these? The ban on the use of wild animals in circuses is welcomed by the majority in this Chamber, but why has it taken so long to bring it to fruition? Wales used to lead the UK, if not the world, on animal welfare, and yet on this issue, and others, we have fallen behind Scotland and now England.

Photo of Paul Davies Paul Davies Conservative 3:30, 16 July 2019

And with the proposed changes to the community health councils, it is typical of this Government that, when something isn't going right, when people start taking it to task on its failings, it either scraps the target or abolishes the organisation that dares to speak up for individuals. And I put it to the First Minister: we need to boost accountability in our health service, not sweep failings under the carpet.

Now, it was extremely disappointing to me and the thousands of people in Wales who have autism or look after their loved ones with autism that this Welsh Government voted down the autism Bill, which would have brought much support to those families at a time when they need it the most. And I urge the Government to look again at introducing legislation in this area.

Turning to the new Bills announced today, it is good to see the First Minister taking best practice from the UK Government's Bus Services Act 2017 in his proposed public transport Bill by franchising bus services in Wales. However, what will the Welsh Government do to support, for example, provision of bus services for young people, and how will it support small and medium-sized bus operators through this specific legislation? Additionally, how will community-led bus services, which also fill gaps in provision, fit into the proposals for local authorities to franchise or run bus services directly?

Now, the harsh reality of the Government's mismanagement of the Welsh NHS is that patients and hard-working staff pay the price. It is unacceptable that nearly one in two patients find it difficult to make a convenient appointment with their GP, coming from a Government who campaigned to make GP services much more accessible. Given the farce in April, when GPs were left in limbo after the health Minister unilaterally cut the global sum of GP indemnity by more than £11 million to deliver the state-backed indemnity scheme, how will his Government seek to reverse such mistakes through this specific legislative proposal? Have both the British Medical Association and the Royal College of General Practitioners been consulted before this Bill was announced today?

Of course, no legislative programme would be complete without mentioning reform of local government, once again having the potential to leave councils, staff, and those who rely on local services in limbo again. The Minister for Housing and Local Government announced last month that recommendations from the independent working group on local government would be included within the Bill, specifically voluntary mergers of local authorities. How will this Assembly be assured that any proposal by local authorities would not be subject to the whim of the local government Minister, as actually happened back in 2015?

Given the continued protests today in our capital, it is disappointing that his Government is not bringing forward any Bill relating to the climate change emergency. However, this isn't surprising, as it seems his Minister declared it in the press first before updating him during any other business in Cabinet. This is a serious issue that needs serious consideration, and clearly we must spend time discussing this matter and then take clear action to work towards a zero-carbon Wales. Some people would suggest that this Government is paying lip service to their concerns on the environment, because if his Government was serious, then surely he would bring forward specific legislation as soon as possible.

Now, my disappointment continues that this Government has decided not to bring forward definitive proposals to ban single-use plastics in Wales. Can the First Minister therefore give us an update, or even confirm if it will be in this Assembly, for when he will be bringing in a ban, and whether he'll be looking to create a drink deposit-return scheme as part of that in the future?

Therefore, in closing, Llywydd, I look forward to scrutinising the Welsh Government's legislative proposals for the remainder of this Assembly. We as an opposition will work openly and constructively with the Welsh Government where we believe it's doing the right thing, and I hope that the Government will use its resources in the best possible way in order to produce legislation that will make a difference and will improve the lives of people here in Wales. I do hope the First Minister takes time to reflect over the summer on what policies Wales needs to make us an innovative nation, a nation that is ready to take advantage of the opportunities ahead and that, after 20 years of Welsh Labour, will finally start delivering for the people of Wales.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:35, 16 July 2019

I thank the Member for those remarks. I'll try and answer the questions that he posed in them.

The legislation we will bring forward in relation to bus services will be designed to reverse the damage done to bus services in Wales by the policies of deregulation introduced by his Government. That's where the problems of bus services lie. They lie in the denial of powers to local authorities to be able to act purposefully in the public interest, despite the fact that the vast majority of revenue received by bus companies in Wales comes in one way or another directly from the public purse. And he's absolutely right that the public should have confidence that the money that they provide for that service is being put to use in the public interest. That's what our Bill will secure and it will do that alongside the other things that we are already doing: extending subsidised travel on buses for young people and paving the way for the future of bus services by having demand-responsive services operating in parts of Wales, including new services being provided in the south Wales Valleys area.

As far as GPs are concerned, I notice that the Member failed to refer to the 93 per cent satisfaction rate that people in Wales express with their GP services. And, of course, the proposals that we're bringing forward in relation to liability are as a result of our discussions with the profession and with the medical defence unions. And, of course, the contractual matters to which he referred have now been settled here in Wales. We have reached agreement with GPC Wales on contractual reforms over the coming 12 months and those agreements are manifestly better than the deal that has been struck for GPs by his Government across our border—and that is the view of the profession.

As far as the local government Bill is concerned, well, the Bill will be here for Members to scrutinise. When we say 'voluntary mergers', the word 'voluntary' means what it says and the Member will be able to see that when the Bill is published.

As far as a climate emergency is concerned, then legislation is only one of the wide range of actions that this Government takes to make real our response to the impact of climate change on our planet. Here, Llywydd, are just three things that we will be doing and they demonstrate the breadth of the ambition that this Government has. In transport, we will press ahead over the next 12 months with our determination that 20 mph zones should become the default setting in urban areas with all the impact that that has not just on the climate but with every other advantage that it brings in terms of connected communities. We will bring forward regulations to tackle agricultural pollution, because we know that pollution in the agricultural industry directly harms our environment just as it directly harms the reputation of the agricultural industry. We will bring forward legislation in the form of regulation to deal with that in the coming 12 months. By the end of the next 12 months, Llywydd, the Welsh Government will have planted the millionth tree that we will have planted in Uganda on behalf of the people of Wales. We will create a forest in Uganda twice the size of the landmass of Wales working with our partners in the Wales for Africa programme there. That is part of our commitment not simply to the people of that area but the responsibility that we owe globally in relation to the climate emergency. All of those things—and that's just three examples; there are many more that I could have offered the Member this afternoon to demonstrate the things that we're doing. And by the way, Llywydd, I don't think I heard a single legislative proposal from the opposition that they would have put forward in the final period of this Assembly.

Finally, in relation to single-use plastics, Llywydd—[Interruption.] It's too late for them to start muttering these ideas now. The leader of the opposition had ample opportunity to set them out in front of the Assembly and couldn't find a moment to refer to them. As far as plastics are concerned, we have worked with his Government, we have worked with the UK Government, with the Treasury's consultation on proposals to use tax measures to deal with plastics. And we've agreed with the Treasury on the limited set of ideas that they have brought forward. Here, we have brought forward our own proposals for extended producer responsibility and a deposit-return scheme in Wales. The consultation closed in May of this year; we are considering the responses. We will publish a summary of those responses shortly, and then we will continue to work collaboratively with others to bring forward new taxation measures.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru 3:41, 16 July 2019

(Translated)

There are elements in the statement on the legislative programme that the First Minister delivered this afternoon that are to be welcomed. We’ve already declared our support for the principle of embracing the social partnership model that will be attached to the Bill that the First Minister has referred to.

We also welcome the move towards reregulation of the bus sector. We agree with the analysis in terms of the damage done by deregulation during the 1980s, and the shift in the other direction I think is a step forward. But may I ask, as this sector is one that is going through great and very challenging restructuring at the moment, for numerous reasons, what work has the Welsh Government done and what work is the Welsh Government doing to ensure that we aren’t simply waiting for those statutory powers or legislative powers? For example, I raised the issue of First Cymru with the First Minister a few weeks ago, and the opportunity—it’s a threat, but it’s also perhaps an opportunity—for us to ensure that we don’t see an erosion of services across large parts of the south-west of Wales, and across Wales as a whole. He did mention that he would have a word with his Minister for local government in order to have a discussion with the city of Swansea in the first instance. 

In terms of taxis, I think it is a sector—. I think the First Minister in his statement said that it's a sector that is going through even more of a change, because of the challenges of the gig economy and so on, and perhaps that’s the driver for the ideas that have emerged from various stakeholders in this area. I am disappointed that we are delaying this, because this landscape is going to look very different in two or three years. It looked very different two or three years ago. So, can we afford to not take this opportunity to ensure that we place that sector on firm, robust ground?

There are things to be welcomed in terms of the legislation that’s been deferred. We welcome the decision to pause the agriculture Bill. That’s what we’ve consistently said in Plaid Cymru, and I think that gives us an opportunity to weight up and to develop a framework that will provide a foundation for the long-term future.

There are some things missing. I can’t see any reference, for example, to a clean air Act. I haven't read the First Minister’s manifesto for the leadership of the Labour Party from cover to cover, but I do think that was an element of the programme that you had presented—that is, an Act that would, for example, give you a statutory right to breathe, and would place a responsibility or put WHO guidance on some sort of statutory basis, and so on. And, of course, we know that there is a huge problem across Wales and this is an area where we do need to see progress. I would still urge the Government to reconsider not legislating now on this issue.

You had also mentioned, or in fact you had committed to extending the smoking ban, if I remember rightly, to open air areas in town and city centres. Is that still your Government’s intention, and when do you intend to legislate in that regard?

In terms of TERCW—I'm not sure what the Welsh acronym for that is yet—but I do think it’s true that this body will not only be responsible for tertiary education and research, but it will also be responsible for innovation in its broader sense. And if memory serves me, I think the intention is to create some sub-committee that will be specifically responsible for innovation and research. Isn't there a risk, First Minister, in that regard, because innovation of course relies upon research from the HE sector, and so on, but that only represents one aspect of innovation? There is also the business dimension, which is crucially important, and there was a recommendation made by Professor Kevin Morgan, who is a global specialist in innovation, that we should rather create a national innovation body on the Scandinavian model. That’s not what’s entailed in the recommendations that you're taking forward, but is that still part of the vision for the legislation that you are to introduce?

Finally, there is a reference in your statement towards legislative constraints. So, what exactly are those constraints? Is it the number of Members, the time available during the working week in the Senedd, which takes us back to the debate that we had last week? Does it relate to the number of civil servants that you have available to you? Can you give us some idea as to where the pressures are being applied and what can be done? We made one definite suggestion in terms of one element of this problem, but what else can be done? Because if these constraints do mean that there are good ideas for legislation that can't proceed, then we will all lose out as a result of that.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:47, 16 July 2019

(Translated)

May I thank Adam Price for his contribution this afternoon, and thank him for what he said about the Plaid Cymru support for the Bill that we're going to introduce on the social partnership model—and I look forward to the debate on that—and for what he said about reregulating buses in Wales? Of course, there are challenges facing the sector. We're not just going to wait for the new powers. There are many things that we can already do in Wales. I welcome the fact that there are 50 new electric buses that are going to be introduced in Wales over the coming months, and as I said in response to questions from Paul Davies, there are things that we're already doing with the powers that we already have to extend things, to draw younger people in to using the buses as well.

With regard to taxis, of course, things are moving very quickly. Things change in the world outwith the world of taxis. And the point on the gig economy, and so on, the unions had already raised those points with us and that’s one of the reasons why we want to think again and reconsider the new ideas that have been received. I do want to say, Llywydd, that we are going to prepare a package of things that we can do now with the powers that we currently have to respond to some of the issues that have arisen in the discussions on the White Paper.

On the agriculture Bill, now, over the summer, we are going to hold a conversation the length and breadth of Wales on the new paper that Lesley Griffiths has introduced, and, of course, as we thought about the first White Paper, to think about the things that people in this sector have to say to us. We're confident that we will have powers under the Bill currently going through the House of Commons to deal with the situation if we do leave the European Union, but we do want to bring forward a Bill that is relevant to us here in Wales, and we still want to prepare for that and publish another White Paper before the end of this term to prepare for the future.

With regard to clean air, we're going to publish a plan for clean air in the autumn and that will prepare the ground for legislation in this area in the future. With regard to smoking, we're going to bring forward regulations to extend those locations where we can control smoking, and do more in that regard. And that will lead to other things, as I already mentioned.

Just for a moment, Llywydd, I will expand on the tertiary education and training Bill—I'm not quite sure what that is in Welsh, I apologise—but just to explain the background to people again.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:51, 16 July 2019

Members will know it's the product of the Hazelkorn review. It recommended a single regulatory oversight and co-ordinating authority for the post-compulsory education sector, and we intend that the commission will bring together a range of currently disparate functions and funding streams and provide a transparent civic mission for the sector, as it covers higher education, further education, work-based learning, apprenticeships, sixth-form education and research and, as Adam Price said, innovation here in Wales. It's absolutely our ambition that we produce a single collaborative sector that is both ambitious and innovative, and the Minister will have heard the points that Adam Price has raised here this afternoon, and no doubt they will be further discussed during the passage of the Bill.

As far as constraints on our legislative ability are concerned, Llywydd, the biggest constraint that we face is Brexit and the demands that it has already made on this Assembly. There have been 130 written statements published by the Welsh Government in relation to statutory instruments alone during their passage through this Assembly. We've had those many debates, and I'm very grateful for the work of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee in its sifting role about the negative and the affirmative procedure that will allow this Assembly to carry out its scrutiny role. It's been an enormous constraint on our ability to pay attention to some other legislative priorities that we might wish to have brought forward and it's not over yet. I think I have announced this afternoon a programme that will place enormous demands on Assembly Members here in committees and on the floor of the Assembly, because of the ambitious volume of legislation that we want to complete during the rest of this Assembly term.

But I just want to take the opportunity of a point that Adam Price raised to say that all of this, to some extent, has to remain under review against the legislation that we may have to bring forward in an emergency way, should the United Kingdom crash out of the European Union in a way that we absolutely say must be avoided, and which then gives rise to unforeseen consequences that will require a legislative response. There are other constraints, of course, in terms of the availability of expertise, the availability of committee time, timetables of this Assembly itself, but Brexit is the single biggest constraint that we have faced over the last 12 months and I anticipate that it will go on being a constraint over the next 12 months as well.

Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative 3:55, 16 July 2019

The First Minister started his statement by saying:

'This legislative statement sets out the Government’s plans for the Bills we will introduce over the remainder of this Assembly term.' 

I think it was about halfway through the statement before we got on to that. We heard before about what had happened or what others were doing or why you wouldn't be doing various things, and on those, you said, we've

'been able to assess whether we are now in a position to bring forward a Welsh agriculture Bill and an environmental principles and governance Bill in this term'.

I'm clear from your statement and, indeed, the pre-briefing of it—I'm not making a complaint about that—but just it is clear that the Welsh agriculture Bill is not going forward. You say, though, on environmental principles and governance:

'this remains a complex matter and we are in ongoing dialogue with the UK Government and the other administrations about the best way to achieve this.'

Does that mean 'no'? Is that Bill definitely not happening?

On the agricultural Bill, you talk about looking at

'issues such as the rights of tenant farmers.'

But this Bill is not going to come in until the next Assembly, and I thought, from your exchanges with Neil McEvoy previously, that you were already taking action in this area. Could you clarify?

On the climate change issues, we had Paul Davies making, I thought, very fair complaints about the way they'd been handled in Wales—an item of any other business after a press statement that had already been issued. But he didn't say anything about the way it had been handled at Westminster, where the UK Conservative Government gave 90 minutes of parliamentary time to a statutory instrument that wasn't even voted on, and on that basis, changing a target of 80 per cent reduction by 2050, which was coming some way to getting public buy-in and a degree of consensus, at least, relative to where we were, to something that I fear will not have that. And the Treasury and others in the UK Government have estimated costs of between £50 billion and £70 billion a year. They weren't even debated in Westminster, let alone voted on, and when we mention here that, for Welsh Government, they calculate that the cost will be £1 billion or thereabouts to the Welsh Government budget, you all just throw up your hands and say, 'You can't possibly do that,' while claiming it's such a priority. I mean, which is it?

I just wonder whether, with this statement, we have some movement. You talk about

'paying farmers for the actions they can take to respond to the climate emergency, reducing emissions and capturing carbon.'

So, the Welsh Government likes to say that it gets Wales £680 million a year—I think it's the figure you used—from the European Union. A lot of that goes to agriculture. Are you saying that a portion, and if so, how large a portion of that money is going to be changed from giving it to farmers on the basis of their land ownership, as long as they're actively farming to a degree, to saying they're only going to get it to compensate them for things that will cost them, such as climate storage or other actions on that? Is there a change of policy there and how much further how we got to go to find this £1 billion that we need to tackle the climate emergency that's been declared? Where is that money going to be found from?

You mentioned on childcare:

'we have continued to legislate for important domestic matters, securing the administrative framework for our childcare offer to provide much-needed support to working families'.

You don't go beyond the legislation. You've actually achieved this early. You had it in the Labour manifesto, and in this area, you've been as good as your word. You said there was going to be a focused rather than a universal childcare offer to working parents, and you've gone on and delivered it, and you've done it early. Before, the childcare system in Wales was relatively skewed towards the public sector, at least compared to England. Yet this scheme, I mean, it's not allowed top-ups, but it is in essence a voucher scheme, where the money goes to the parent to choose what childcare provider to use, and there's equality between the public and the private sectors. That's something you've actually delivered on, and I, at least, would like to commend you on that.

The GP indemnity Bill, again, I know GPs have been pushing very hard for this and were concerned that there hadn't been movement on it. There now is, and I think the Government's right to move in this area.

On the public transport Bill, we on these benches are open-minded about what's the best model for bus transport provision. We're not convinced that the deregulation we've seen outside London since the 1980s has been a great success, and we think it's right that we give local authorities the option to try franchising, to try direct provision. Would the First Minister agree with me that it would be advantageous if—? I think there's a trade-off to be had in terms of encouraging regional working where it's needed, but also, would it be advantageous if we saw some local authorities or some regions, at least, taking a different approach, so we got some further evidence of what works, and seeing what approaches are more successful in dealing with what customers want in this area?

It doesn't mention the joint transport authorities, and one area where there was a lot of criticism of the White Paper was around the joint transport authorities, and particularly having regional ones, and then having a national one. And while I think Members were keen to give a following wind to Transport for Wales and understood it being a private company in its operation, what is the point of these regional and national JTAs, and isn't there a danger of duplication? What decision has been made in terms of how we'll legislate in this area?

And then we have the curriculum and assessment Bill, and the social partnership. I think a week or two ago we heard from the First Minister his enthusiasm for socialism in one clause through commencing this part of the Equality Act. My concern there is around the assessment element in particular of the education Bill. It talks about freedoms, but will that be schools marking their own homework? What is being removed in terms of assessment and accountability for schools? And is the First Minister saying that, as well as socialism in one clause, if you want to push ahead with trying to implement socialism, perhaps the first thing socialists do is stop measuring things so they can't be seen to fail?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 4:01, 16 July 2019

Llywydd, I'll try and respond to a number of the points raised. I don't think it's possible to understand the next year's legislative programme without some account of the measures that are already in the pipeline and the workload that falls on this Assembly in order to complete them, and that's what I was trying to do in my statement.

As far as the agriculture Bill is concerned, we will continue to consult, now, over the summer, on the proposals that my colleague Lesley Griffiths set out last week. Our aim is to reward active farmers for two essential purposes: for sustainable food production, and for delivery of those public goods that, without help from the public purse, farmers would otherwise be unable to deliver. Our aim now is to bring that together in a single sustainable farming scheme. Now, I think that has been broadly welcomed by the farming unions, and I think they think that it is a genuine response to the concerns that they raised during the consultation on 'Brexit and our land' of having two separate schemes, where in fact we want to provide a single sustainable farm income for those farmers who are active farmers, that they don't simply get rewards on the basis of the amount of land they occupy, whether they do anything with is or not, and I think again that's something that the industry welcomes, and we want to make sure that the investment that the public makes in our agriculture industry, which we are very keen to make sure we go on making, is an investment on which the public see a return for those environmental purposes that the Member mentioned.

The GP indemnity Bill is a very good example of how, when Governments act on behalf of a group collectively, we are able to put the force of the Government behind a really important need in an occupation. I could describe it as a socialist solution to what was otherwise market failure, and I don't think I would be that far wrong from it. Last week, I thanked the Member for his generous endorsement of our social partnership Act as 'socialism in one clause', but he's been good enough to repeat it this afternoon.

As far as bus transport is concerned, I think we would go further than saying deregulation has not been a great success. I think we have seen deregulation damage bus services across Wales. We see competition on that relatively small number of profitable routes, and money being therefore drained away from local authorities' ability to go on supporting bus services on routes that will never survive on an entirely commercial basis. We want to be able to avoid that wasteful competition by giving local authorities the powers they need to provide a planned bus service that delivers for the wider public good. How they will do that—I don't think we have any objection to the idea that local authorities will come up with different approaches, but we think that those different approaches should be regionally mapped out. I entirely can see why a regional approach to bus services in the south west of Wales would be different to a regional approach in the Gwent area of Wales. So, it's not a difficulty with differentiation, but it is a feeling that bus services don't operate on local authority boundaries. To plan a bus route, you need to be able to plan how that bus route operates across the boundary, not just within a local authority. That is why, in our proposals for bus transport and in our proposals for local government, we will bring together a set of proposals to support the regional development and delivery of bus services, because we think that simply makes the most sense, in the way that the industry operates on the ground.

Photo of Mick Antoniw Mick Antoniw Labour 4:06, 16 July 2019

First Minister, I will confine my comments, I think, to the references to the social partnership part of the legislative programme, because I think this may be one of the most underplayed parts of what is, I think, a very visionary agenda. One of the prime objectives of any Government is the well-being of its people. In Wales, we have unemployment falling from 7.7 per cent eight years ago to 4.4 per cent now, to some of the lowest levels we've had in generations. Yet, the level of in-work poverty remains the same. It must be fundamental to any society that, if someone does a good week's work, they should be entitled to a decent standard of living and they should be entitled to a reasonable standard for their families as well.

The International Labour Organization says that dialogue and equity are at the heart of collective bargaining and help to build stable and decent societies, and that collective bargaining can create a fairer economy. I want to welcome that particular part of the legislative programme, but also to put on record the actual socioeconomic importance of this. This is visionary legislation, which is also legislation being recognised across the UK and, indeed, further afield as being fundamental to one of the biggest challenges we face within our society, and that is socioeconomic inequality. So, I welcome that. I wonder if you could perhaps give us an indication of the timescale for the process of this legislation. Beyond that, I think this will perhaps become one of the jewels in the crown of Welsh Labour's legislative programme.  

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 4:07, 16 July 2019

I thank Mick Antoniw for that. He's right to say that I didn't spend a great deal of time on the social partnership proposals in today's statement, Llywydd, largely because I had an opportunity on the floor of the Assembly last week to make a statement specifically on that matter and to answer questions from Members then. At the heart of our social partnership ambitions is to create what the well-being of future generations (Wales) Act commits us to, and that is the creation of a more equal Wales. It isn't just the ILO that points out that more equal societies do better economically. That is the conclusion of both the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund as well. And they both say that more equal societies with more successful economies are created when workers have a fair share of the product of that economy, and the collective bargaining through trade unions is the way that people come together to secure that fairer share. So, our social partnership Bill will be a fair work Bill as well, because that is absolutely part of our ambition for a more equal Wales.

I thank Mick Antoniw for what he said about the interest, which I know is being taken beyond Wales, in the Bill. I said here last week that on the following day, on Wednesday of last week, I would be meeting the social partners, and that we would work together in a social partnership sense to plan the progress to the introduction of the Bill on the floor of the Assembly. I'm happy to report this afternoon, Llywydd, that that meeting took place, that it was a productive meeting, that we would work together on the social partnership agenda, including preparation for the Bill, and that we remain, as a Government, committed both to its introduction and to its passage during the remainder of this Assembly term.

Photo of Suzy Davies Suzy Davies Conservative 4:09, 16 July 2019

Perhaps I can invite the First Minister, first of all, to perhaps hold a debate on our legislative programme at some point, just to prove that there actually was one, and of course there have been several policy announcements since then. 

Thank you for your statement, though. You began by saying:

'We will press on with important measures in respect of education…and transport'.

So, I suppose my first question has to be why you're not bringing forward a new Act to replace the outdated Learner Travel (Wales) Measure 2008, not least to protect the aims of your 2050 strategy for 1 million Welsh speakers, which hasn't been reflected elsewhere in the announcement you've made today. But at least that would be one way of securing access to Welsh-medium education at all ages.

Thank you for acknowledging the work of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee in your statement, and its work on statutory instruments, but I hope that you recognise also the frustration that was voiced by that committee in terms of the lack of scrutiny that that process afforded us during the Brexit SI saga. That, I hope, will not creep into any further processes that we might encounter when it comes to our ability to scrutinise.

I know that Members will be disappointed with the delay in the made-in-Wales agriculture Bill. I don't want to go into that particularly, but please bear in mind, Members, that that was put in front of us as a reason for accepting the LCM Bill at the time, when primary legislation is always preferable. Now, primary legislation is preferable, but it needs to be functional, so can you give us an idea, First Minister, on just how 'framework' your primary legislation is likely to be in character? We've already had to put up with a fair few Swiss cheese Bills in this Assembly, so I'm looking for reassurance that all Bills will be fully researched upfront with complete clarity on key concepts, expected outcomes and implementation, with only genuinely technical matters referred to secondary legislation. It was nonsensical that the minimum alcohol price was missing from the minimum alcohol price Bill, and Members should not be ready to accept such underdeveloped legislation in the future.

I hope that we don't see anything similar in the curriculum and assessment Bill. Welsh Government is aware that there are still some residual concerns on how to translate the areas of learning experience into the real teaching experience, so I'd be interested if you have any detail on how that's going to be addressed in that Bill. This legislation is to enable huge change aimed at wiping out or at least reversing the recent history of underachievement, and we acknowledge that something needs to change, but on this legislation we are going to be very alert to the fact that it absolutely must not allow for disguise or places to hide. So, will the Bill set out how accountability of schools is to be provided for?

And then, finally, First Minister—and thank you, Llywydd—on both education Bills, but all Bills, actually: draft Bills. We like those in this Assembly, so can you confirm that it will now be the norm for us to receive draft Bills for scrutiny prior to the formal laying of Green Papers? Thank you.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 4:13, 16 July 2019

Llywydd, I thank Suzy Davies for that. I look forward to the Conservative Party here using one of its very many debates that it has here in its own time to bring forward the legislative programme that it says it would introduce were it ever to be so unlikely as to be in a position to do so here in Wales. It would be a short debate, I understand that, but we look forward to it.

I understand the points that Suzy Davies has made about the tension between the need for proper scrutiny here and the speed with which we were having to deal with the volume of Brexit-related legislation. Part of the frustration was because we had to bring forward our SIs after UK Government SIs were in place, because often what we were doing depended upon what they were doing first, and the delays in them bringing forward their SIs had a knock-on effect on what we would do here. That is very much the case in relation to the agriculture Bill. When the UK was due to leave the European Union on 29 March, with more than two years of this Assembly term still to go, we were confident that we would have had everything in place that we needed to bring forward our own agriculture Bill. That is certainly not the case now. We may be leaving on 31 October—who knows? We hope not, of course, but even if we do, the amount of time that would be left in this Assembly term simply means that it is not feasible, as we thought it was before the UK Government's original plan went down in flames, when we thought that we would be able to do that.

I recognise the tension, of course, between what goes on the face of the Bill and what we leave to secondary legislation. And no doubt we will debate that, the balance, in all the Bills that we bring forward. But the example that the Member chose to highlight demonstrates why some of the claims that are made about the need for things to be on the face of the Bill are simply not sensible. In my view, it would have been genuinely nonsensical to have put the price of a unit of alcohol on the face of the Bill, because, every time you needed to change it, you would have needed fresh primary legislation. That would be—[Interruption.] Well, David Melding tells me, 'No, it wouldn't'. David, Suzy Davies is shouting at me, 'Yes, it would'. So, I think maybe you two should have a conversation first. Some things are rightly in secondary legislation, which is scrutinised on the floor of this Assembly, and a detail of that sort, when prices will change, inevitably, over time—putting it on the face of the Bill was not, in my view, the sort of detail that belongs there. It’s properly—[Interruption.] It's properly brought forward through regulation and regulation is properly scrutinised on the floor of this Assembly. So, I see this will be a debate that we will continue as each Bill is brought forward. But I do want to recognise it’s a proper debate, a proper debate, and I recognise that we will have to have it each time as to what is properly on the face of the Bill and what’s properly left to regulation, even when we disagree about where the line might be drawn.

As to the point that the Member made about accountability, I really think this is another fault line on the floor of the Assembly. The culture we want to create in our public services is one of high trust, in which we recognise the professional expertise of people who work in these services, and we work with them to create the outcomes that we want. I don’t want a culture of mistrust, and that’s what I heard the Member outline—that sense of accountability is always being suspicious of what people are up to in our public services, always feeling that they have the spectre of the Welsh Government sitting on their shoulder for everything they do. That’s not what I think of as accountability, and I certainly don’t think it produces good public services.

Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you very much, Llywydd. May I welcome the fact that the Government is now not going to bring forward an agriculture Bill for Wales before the next election? It’s certainly something that I and Plaid Cymru have been arguing for over the past few weeks and months. I do feel that we should wait to see what the post-Brexit trading landscape looks like—that is, what access will Welsh farmers have to markets, will the level of tariffs be detrimental to the industry, and, indeed, how much funding will be available from the UK Government through the Welsh Government to support the sector in Wales—before we proceed to implement any recommendations that emerge from the consultation that has just commenced. Introducing changes like these isn’t something that you do without serious consideration—you're aware of that. It’s only once in a generation that such far-reaching changes can be introduced, so it’s important that we turn over every stone and consider all possible options before proceeding. I always felt that the Government timetable was unrealistic, and I am pleased that the Government has now recognised that from a legislation perspective.

The current consultation, of course, closes a day before Brexit may happen, at the end of October. Then we will need to consider the options and the responses. Then we will need impact assessments and we need to model the impact of the Government’s proposals on the sector. Then we need to design programmes with the sector, and then draft the legislation. So, it was always very ambitious to do that before 2021. But what I would like to ask about this specifically is: now that we have more time within the timetable, as the Bill itself isn’t going to be introduced before the next election, can you confirm to us that the Welsh Government won’t carry out the impact assessments and the modelling on the sector until we know what Brexit looks like? Because you said yourself some moments ago about the unforeseen consequences and that we are entering grounds that we couldn’t perhaps imagine. The reality is, if you’ve done the modelling and the impact assessments before Brexit happens, then it is premature, because we won’t know whether the context will reflect where we are post Brexit.

Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru 4:20, 16 July 2019

I'm a bit confused in relation to the environmental principles and governance legislation. It was touched on earlier. I'm rather disappointed, I think—no, I am; I am disappointed—that the Welsh Government seems reticent or unlikely to pursue distinct legislation on environmental governance for Wales. You seem to suggest that maybe you were looking to the UK Government to do it for you, initially. Of course, that runs counter to what we've been hearing from Government up until now, because we've been told that the environmental policy landscape in Wales is very, very distinct, is very different—the legislation and the duties that we have stemming from the Environment (Wales) Act 2016, from the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, puts Wales in a very, very different place to the rest of the UK, and particularly to England, in what we require in terms of environmental principles and governance captured in any post-Brexit accountability mechanisms. 

Now, of course, we all remember that Natural Resources Wales was created as a bespoke Welsh solution to Welsh needs. Your own Government is currently pursuing an independent planning inspectorate for Wales because of policy divergence between England and Wales that necessitates that distinct Welsh body. My fear is that retrospectively latching Wales onto UK legislation around, or proposals around, the office of environmental protection runs contrary, clearly, to that. I can understand the rationale for a UK-wide governance body, replicating, effectively, what we already have on an EU level—and I've got something to say about that as well, as you can imagine—but I'm not convinced that that kind of approach would be based on a partnership of equals and, of course, it would necessitate all devolved administrations coming to the table. And, from my understanding, there's no appetite for that in Scotland at the moment. So, we're likely to end up with an England-and-Wales body, and RSPB Cymru and other organisations have made it clear in evidence to the environment committee that that would be the worst of all worlds, because, as we've seen in other contexts, their fear is that we'd likely see a concentration of work on where the resources are greatest and, in their words, that is most likely in England. So, do you recognise that risk, if we were to end up with an England-and-Wales body? And will any belated arrangement with England—because, of course, the UK legislation is already well on its journey through Westminster—really respect devolution and existing Welsh law, and is there not a risk that we end up, therefore, with the lowest common denominator?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 4:22, 16 July 2019

(Translated)

I thank Llyr Gruffydd for what he said on the agriculture Bill. Of course, we did want to continue with the agriculture Bill in this term. The problem isn’t with what we wanted to do, but with the timetable for Brexit itself. In the new context, I agree with what Llyr said: there isn’t enough information to legislate in this term, and there won’t be enough information in the new Brexit context. That’s why we’ve taken the decision to bring forward a White Paper. And, of course, we are going to work very hard with the sector to draw things together, to listen to the sector before October, and work with them again after October, when we have received all of the responses.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 4:23, 16 July 2019

It's not a matter of stepping back from the ambition, Llywydd, because our ambition for the future of Welsh agriculture is real, and the changes that we want to bring about I think will go with the grain of those ambitious people in the sector. We can't do impact assessments without knowing the budget. The Member is right about that, and we won't be going ahead with them until we are clearer about the budget we are working within.

On the environmental principles and governance gaps, I felt a slight Mark Isherwood moment coming on: 'How do you answer confused of north Wales, who has said to me that—?' Well, I will try and clarify any confusion by being clear: we do intend to legislate in this field here, yes. We don't think we will be able to rely entirely on legislation elsewhere. It would not be acceptable to us or to the Scottish Government either to have an England oversight body simply operating at a UK-wide level. We're still involved in many conversations with all administrations, not just the UK Government, but the Scottish Government as well, about where the gaps will finally emerge in relation to governance and principles. That's why it wasn't possible this afternoon, Llywydd, to be certain about when legislation would happen. But, if it wasn't clear in what I said that we intend to legislate, I'm happy to confirm that in answer to Llyr's question. 

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour

You're very kind, Presiding Officer. I'm grateful to you, Presiding Officer, and I'm grateful to the First Minister for the statement this afternoon, and I want to welcome that statement, especially the focus on equality, which has run all the way through that. 

It's important, I think, when Westminster's deciding whether it can even sit or not in the autumn, whether MPs will be allowed even to sit in their own Chamber and debate the matters facing us as a UK, that in this Parliament we are actually focusing on how we're going to improve the lives of the people we represent. 

I want to especially welcome the statement on legislation on bus service regulation. This is something that the First Minister will be aware I've brought to the Chamber on a number of occasions, and has a significant impact on the people of Blaenau Gwent, and it is something that will have a very warm welcome across all parts of Wales. 

I also want to welcome the confirmation that the Government is moving ahead to legislate to lower the franchise in local government elections. I think this is something that has very strong support across the whole Chamber. I hope that the First Minister will also be able to confirm that that change in the franchise will also be extended to prisoners on at least short-term sentences. 

I also want to welcome the continuing radical reforms of education. This is something that, again, will be warmly welcomed in Blaenau Gwent, and it's something that I know puts a mark of radicalism on this Government. 

There are some areas, First Minister, where I do have some concerns. You will be aware that I'm very concerned that the Government has dropped all Welsh language legislation now. If we are serious about equality, then it is clear that there is a glaring gap in equality legislation for those of us who use the Welsh language. I do not understand how the Government intends to achieve its objective of a million Welsh speakers without a statutory framework within which to operate. If that is not forthcoming before the next election, I am seriously concerned whether that target will possible to achieve.  

Secondly, the First Minister will not be surprised to hear that I'm profoundly disappointed that he's not moving ahead with local government reorganisation. This was a manifesto commitment of Welsh Labour. Every Welsh Labour Member in this Chamber was elected, as was I, with a firm commitment to this as a part of our manifesto. So, walking away from that manifesto commitment is something that I'm extremely disappointed in. I want to see—[Interruption.] I want to see—. When we talk about equality, I want equality in delivery of services as well. We're about to hear a statement from the finance Minister on public spending in the future. We know that we cannot continue with a structure of governance in Wales that was put in place by John Redwood. So, I'm disappointed about that. 

I'd like to complete my questions to you, First Minister, by repeating some of the points that have already been raised about those areas of legislation that may be affected by EU exit. I recognise and I accept the assurances that have been given over areas such as fisheries, agriculture and the environment. However, I would be very deeply concerned if any of these areas were legislated for in Westminster. This isn't a matter of legislative convenience or for any sense of resource issue; it is essential to us that there is firm Welsh legislation in place, enacted by this place, that will enable either this Assembly or a future Assembly to ensure that whatever measures are put in place are measures that have the support of the people of Wales, and are enacted by people sitting here representing them.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 4:29, 16 July 2019

Llywydd, can I thank the Member for his questions? I'll take them in reverse order, if I can. I think he has described the Welsh Government's approach completely accurately in relation to EU legislation. There will be some times when, for sheer, pragmatic reasons, we will have to rely in a transitional way on powers that are created in UK legislation, but that is simply a path to legislation that will be brought forward on the floor of this Assembly, not only in agriculture, but in fisheries as well. In fisheries in particular it's important to wait until the UK legislation is put in place, because it will extend the powers of this Assembly very significantly in relation to fisheries, and we will want to bring forward a fisheries Bill that allows the Assembly to consider and legislate across the range of new powers that we will have. But that is absolutely our intention. 

(Translated)

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 4:30, 16 July 2019

I hear, of course, what the Member says on local government reorganisation. His views are well known on the floor of the Assembly, if, I'm afraid I'd have to say, perhaps not quite as widely shared as he may once have hoped. Our Bill will not leave local government in the John Redwood position. It will provide radical new ways in which local authorities will be able to exercise new powers and will be able to act together in a statutory way to discharge functions on that regional basis. 

As far as the Welsh language is concerned, we have, as he knows, six sets of regulations that cover 120 different bodies already, and the standards that they introduce, and the compliance with those, are monitored by the Welsh Language Commissioner. The message I hear back whenever I am talking to people is not about the need for the standards to be the main focus of our attention, but the implementation of those and the use of those—the use of services by people who speak Welsh, through the language of their choice, and to encourage people to use the services that are now available. Now, when announcing the decision not to go ahead with the Welsh language Bill, Eluned Morgan announced that the programme of introducing standards for new bodies would restart, and the next step in that journey will be for new standards to be introduced for healthcare regulators and for the water companies in Wales. So, we're certainly not not doing things in that Welsh language space, because of our commitment, which I know the Member very powerfully shares, to reach our ambition of a million Welsh speakers by 2050. 

I thank him for what he said about the radical nature of our education reforms, about our determination to press ahead with extending the franchise to 16 and 17-year-olds, and, indeed, to people from other parts of the world who live in our local authority areas and have a stake in the future of those local authorities.

He's absolutely right to identify bus services as an equality issue. It's true; we know that when we talk about train services on the floor of the Assembly, there is often a lot of excitement about them. Bus services don't attract the same sort of public attention, and yet far, far more people use bus services, particularly the people that he was talking about in his contribution. That's why we have decided to put our focus unambiguously on bus regulation during this Assembly term, because it is, in the way that Alun Davies said, the thread that runs through the legislative programme. It puts equality front, centre and at the heart of everything that this Government wants to do here in Wales.