Fire Safety in High-rise Blocks

1. Questions to the First Minister – in the Senedd at on 3 July 2018.

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Photo of David Melding David Melding Conservative

(Translated)

1. Will the First Minister make a statement on fire safety in high-rise blocks in Wales? OAQ52469

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:30, 3 July 2018

Our first priority after the Grenfell Tower tragedy has been to ensure residents of high-rise blocks are safe. We have provided £3 million to remove and replace cladding in the three social sector blocks affected, and we're working with private sector companies to establish their plans to complete the essential work.

Photo of David Melding David Melding Conservative

First Minister, of course, I acknowledge the work that's been done in the social sector, and very welcome it is, but, last month, Wales's chief fire adviser said that residents in private high-rise blocks may have to live with unsafe cladding for years because of wrangling over who should pay for it, and the Residential Landlords Association has called on the Welsh Government to offer short-term loans to the privately owned buildings for remedial works while the issue of liability is sorted out. Do you, First Minister, agree with me that, for the private sector, the priority should be to remove dangerous materials from these buildings and the issue surrounding liability contracts and responsibility should come later?

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:31, 3 July 2018

Usually, the structure and exterior of a building are matters for the landlord. In the case of a high-rise building, it's usually the management company in normal circumstances. They are responsible. Now, there are private companies across Wales who are looking at the buildings that they own and are taking action in order to make them safer, and so they should. Now, I'd urge those private companies who own buildings to do just that. They will have made a substantial amount of money in the main from those buildings. It's only right then that they contribute back to the upkeep of those buildings and not expect residents or tenants to pay. 

Photo of Bethan Sayed Bethan Sayed Plaid Cymru

Just to expand on that point, I'm not entirely convinced that it's just as easy as saying that the management company should pay, because some of these management companies have previously been made up of residents associations, and that means that, by virtue of the set-up and the constitution of those management bodies, the residents themselves are the ones who will be paying. So, for example, in Prospect Place, you've got a mixture of people who are on benefits, you've got a mixture of professional people and elderly people. Some people will not be able to afford their contribution to that cladding. So, again, I would ask you: what is the Welsh Government doing in addressing this issue with the private sector? In the UK Government—I'm not one to praise them very often—they are having UK round-tables with the industry, telling them how they might address this issue, whereas I'm not seeing here the same type of urgent action on the private cladding that I've seen elsewhere. 

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:32, 3 July 2018

Well, no, that simply isn't correct. There have been meetings with organisations. You're right to say that some management companies are made up entirely of residents within a building. They have to take on board the liabilities as well in those circumstances. It is an advantage to those who live in the building because they feel they have greater control over the communal area of the building, but there are disadvantages, particularly when it comes to liability. 

We will, of course, work with residents organisations. I can say that the Minister has already had a constructive meeting with representatives of the residents management company, the developer and managing agents for a number of the buildings that we're talking about. We'll continue with those meetings to see what help could be provided where there is genuine difficulty as far as some residents are concerned in order to make buildings safer.