4. What information does the Welsh Government hold on the amount of public expenditure spent in any defined geographic area within Wales? OAQ(5)0100(FLG)

Thank you for the question. The Welsh Government holds, or has access to, a wide range of data covering a variety of geographical footprints across Wales. Allocations to local authorities, local health bodies and police authorities represent nearly three quarters of all the Welsh Government’s revenue expenditure.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary for his reply. He highlighted in his earlier responses the damaging effects of Tory austerity policies. There will be increasing pressure on public finances in the years ahead, and the complexity of tackling the challenges will not get any easier. Would he agree that a clear and comprehensive picture of all public spending—local, Welsh and UK-wide Government, covering health, benefits, education and so on—at a local authority level or, dare I say it, a postcode level, would be a valuable objective towards which we should all be striving? And if he does agree, are there any current discussions ongoing, or does he envisage having those discussions in the future?

Well, Llywydd, there are a number of ways in which data are already available at that very local level. The Welsh infrastructure investment plan, for example, records expenditure at postcode level, the Welsh index of multiple deprivation has long operated at lower super-output area level, and analysis of the 2015-16 procurement expenditure in Wales, which is just drawing to a close, will also allow spend to be analysed at that postcode level. So, I share the Member’s interest in the topic for the reasons that he described. I’m sure he will recognise that there are some limitations to how you can use data in that way. There’s a difference between spend and impact, for example. If you build a secondary school, and run a secondary school, it will have a very big impact at a postcode level, but the impact of that spend, of course, is felt far wider than the postcode itself.

I think the Member made an important point in his question, that we have over time moved on from an interest in inputs and outputs, to become much more interested in outcomes—what is the impact of the spend that we are able to provide on the lives of people who we hope will benefit from it? And collecting data is one thing; making sense of them and making use of them is another.

In terms of capital spend, Cabinet Secretary, representatives from local authorities in England that have a border with Wales have mentioned that there is a lack of communication between the Welsh Government and public bodies in England in terms of the details of projects and infrastructure spend that is currently in the pipeline. Given that, what steps are you taking to ensure that more information is shared with public authorities over the border in order to deliver infrastructure projects that are interlinked?

Well, I recognise and acknowledge the point that the Member makes. Of course, a lot of the things that we do in Wales on the border are dependent on what happens across the border as well, and the decisions that we make in Wales will have an impact on England and the things that they do in England, and the decisions that they make, can have an effect on us, and with regard to capital, that is very important to remember. We do share information when people ask us for the information, and when we collaborate with authorities over the border as well.

I haven’t come across any examples that I can remember where there have been problems that have arisen, but if the Member has further details about where things can be improved, then I’m very happy to consider that.

Can I welcome the move to a more sophisticated use of data, Cabinet Secretary? I think it’s very important, because it allows us, or gives us the chance, to get the maximum potential out of public spending. For instance, in areas where there is a high level of childcare provided from state sources, I would expect to see a lot of the local population engaged in delivering those childcare services, and if they’re not, it means, obviously, people are coming in from outside that area to deliver that service—a good thing in itself, but we’re not getting the best for the Welsh pound necessarily in the more deprived areas if public spending isn’t being thoroughly recycled in their economy.

Well, the Member makes the point, more eloquently than I did, that I was trying to make earlier, that we have to be interested in return on investment, not simply investment. Historically, I think you’d have to say that public authorities have been very good at collecting data and have put much less effort into the analysis of data. So, you get an awful lot of stuff on your table, but nobody to help you to make much sense of it. The point of making sense of it is to make sure that we get the return on the investment that we made, that works for the communities where the money is being spent, and the people who live in them.