[R] signifies the Member has declared an interest. [W] signifies that the question was tabled in Welsh.

I have accepted two Urgent Questions under Standing Order 12.66, and I call on Dai Lloyd to ask the first urgent question.

Will the Minister make a statement on devolving the Wales and Borders rail franchise, following comments yesterday by the Secretary of State for Transport in Westminster suggesting that the UK Government will not devolve the franchise as a whole? EAQ(5)0098(EI)

Yes. The Secretary of State’s comments relate to how legal functions might be shared in the future, and final agreement in this area is yet to be reached. What we would stress, as the Secretary of State has confirmed, is that Welsh Government will either receive functions in respect of cross-border services, or be able to exercise them on his behalf. The details of the agreements reached on legal functions will not affect the range of services delivered through the next Wales and borders franchise.

Thank you very much to you for that response. Naturally, there was a great deal of talk yesterday following the comments made by the Secretary of State for Transport, Chris Grayling, who made it clear that full control of the franchise will not be devolved to the Welsh Government. That was contrary to what we came to understand was your situation, from your Government, and also the Westminster Government. We’re not talking about legal responsibility alone. He talked about more than that. He also mentioned day-to-day management yesterday. The Secretary of State said clearly, and I quote, nid ydym yn datganoli cyfrifoldeb dros y fasnachfraint gyfan ar gyfer Cymru... rydym yn gwneud hynny’n rhannol. Rwyf wedi dweud wrth Lywodraeth Cymru fy mod yn hapus iddi gymryd rheolaeth dros reilffyrdd y cymoedd, gyda golwg ar ddatblygu’r system fetro y maent yn gobeithio ei rhoi ar waith.

Nawr, mae’r sylwadau hyn yn amlwg yn tynnu sylw at ddatganoli rhan o’r cyfrifoldeb dros fasnachfraint Cymru a’r gororau ac nid at ddatganoli llawn, sy’n gwrthddweud yn llwyr y sicrwydd a roddodd Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru a Llywodraeth Cymru ar achlysuron blaenorol. Mae’n werth pwysleisio’r gair ‘rhannol’ yma gan fod hwn, os yw sylwadau’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn gywir, yn gytundeb datganoli gryn dipyn yn llai nag oedd unrhyw un wedi’i ddychmygu hyd yma. Efallai y bydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn fodlon ymhelaethu ymhellach ar y trafodaethau y mae ei Lywodraeth wedi’u cael gydag Ysgrifennydd trafnidiaeth y DU ynglŷn â datganoli’r fasnachfraint. Er enghraifft, a fydd map y fasnachfraint yn parhau yr un fath, fel yr addawyd neu a fydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn etifeddu gweddillion masnachfraint? Mewn ymateb i gwestiwn ysgrifenedig gennyf ar 11 Hydref, dywedasoch eich bod yn disgwyl, ac rwy’n dyfynnu; y bydd y fasnachfraint nesaf... yr un fath ar y cyfan.

Os na allwn, fel y dywedodd yr Ysgrifennydd trafnidiaeth ddoe, ac unwaith eto, rwy’n dyfynnu:

gael sefyllfa lle rydym ni, y Llywodraeth yn San Steffan, yn ildio’r rheolaeth dros wasanaethau yn Lloegr i Lywodraeth Cymru, beth y mae hynny’n ei olygu ar gyfer gwasanaethau trawsffiniol cyfredol? Pwy fydd yn gyfrifol am oruchwylio gweithrediad y gwasanaethau hyn—Llywodraeth Cymru neu’r Adran Drafnidiaeth? Neu a fyddant yn cael eu hollti ar y ffin? Beth y mae hyn yn ei olygu ar gyfer gwasanaethau trên rhwng gogledd a de Cymru sy’n gorfod teithio drwy Loegr? Nawr, mae’r rhain yn gwestiynau pwysig y mae angen eu hateb os ydym am gael unrhyw eglurder ynglŷn â dyfodol y fasnachfraint. Bydd y Siambr yn gwybod, wrth gwrs, fod proses gaffael ar gyfer y fasnachfraint nesaf ar y gweill ers amser, gyda phedwar cwmnï gweithredu trenau wedi cyrraedd y rhestr fer ym mis Hydref.

Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, rwy’n gobeithio y byddwch yn gallu fy argyhoeddi, yn eich ymateb, fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwybod beth sy’n digwydd. A yw’r cwmnïau trenau hefyd yn gwybod beth y maent yn gwneud cais yn ei gylch bellach? Oherwydd, a bod yn onest, boed yn wleidyddiaeth amlwg neu’n anfedrusrwydd amlwg, mae’r modd y caiff y broses hon ei chamreoli ar hyn o bryd yn dangos bod Llywodraethau ar bob pen i’r M4 yn gwneud cam â Chymru unwaith eto. Mae eich plaid yn San Steffan wedi methu â sicrhau y byddant yn datganoli’r cyfrifoldeb dros y rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd i Gymru fel rhan o Fil Cymru, ac yn awr mae’n ymddangos na all eich Llywodraeth sicrhau y bydd y rheolaeth dros fasnachfraint Cymru a’r gororau yn cael ei datganoli’n llawn. Mae’r sefyllfa hon yn bygwth datblygu i fod yn dipyn o draed moch. Felly, gofynnaf i chi: ai canlyniad anfedrusrwydd Llywodraeth San Steffan a’r Blaid Lafur yng Nghymru yw hyn, neu a yw’n tynnu ôl yn ddifrifol ar un o bileri allweddol y rownd nesaf o ddatganoli i Gymru?

I was intending to be, unlike the Member, generous in my response and suggest that it was a mistake of his rather than a mischief that has led him to assert many factual inaccuracies. But I’m going to begin with the quote that he repeated, from Chris Grayling, which he did not repeat in full. Chris Grayling said,

‘I need to correct the hon. Gentleman on that: we are not devolving responsibility for the whole Welsh franchise’, and you then stopped, but Chris Grayling went on to say, ‘as he describes’. He went on to say, with regard to giving up control to the Welsh Government, ‘without checks and balances’. What this regards is ensuring that there is accountability for passengers that travel between English locations on the English side of the border within the Wales route. These are agreements that are yet to be reached, but I am on record as saying that it is absolutely right and proper that we should have accountability in place for those elements of the service. We’ve agreed with the UK Government—let me be absolutely clear, again, today—that all services operated under the current Wales and borders franchise will be included in the next Wales and borders franchise and that we will lead on the procurement of these services. The four bidders know that. The map, I said, would largely be unchanged. In fact, subject to us being able to secure train paths, we’ve also secured the Secretary of State’s agreement to operate services to Liverpool and Bristol under a future Wales and borders franchise. So, actually, even more so than saying the map will remain unchanged, in the future it looks as though we will be able to extend services.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.