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Baroness Hilton of Eggardon: My Lords, it is a pleasure to introduce this report to the House on a topic which has for the past month occupied so much newsprint and air time. In politics timing is everything. When we published our report on 25th July it sank without trace. There was not a ripple of interest. However, for the past month it has been the hottest topic around. This week, like London buses, we have had three...
Lord Williamson of Horton: My Lords, I welcome this debate, initiated by the noble Lord, Lord Tomlinson. It gives us an opportunity to examine at least three important matters, now that we have been able to reflect a little on the results of the intergovernmental conference at Nice now that we have the final text; I received it today. In politics we receive a lot of instant reaction. Perhaps this House can make its...
Sir Sydney Chapman: In view of the Secretary of State's very last comment and the fact that the Prime Minister said last week that it would be his policy to strengthen defence inside NATO, can the Secretary of State explain how those comments square with the St. Malo Anglo-French agreement, which asserted: The European Union must have the capacity for autonomous action, backed by credible military forces", and...
Keith Vaz: ...pleasure to respond to the speeches of the hon. Member for Lichfield (Mr. Fabricant). I well remember my visit to Lichfield at his invitation in my previous incarnation when he was mobbed by his constituents in the high street, all asking for the name of his hairdresser. It is a great pleasure also to see in the House my hon. Friend the Member for Hastings and Rye (Mr. Foster)—in my...
John Bercow: I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for that reply. When the Prime Minister referred in The Sunday Telegraph yesterday to those people who really may have an agenda to destroy NATO", assuming that he did not intend to incriminate himself, did he mean the French? If not, who did he mean? If he did mean the French, why cannot the Secretary of State see that the Prime Minister's collusion...
Michael Howard: In his first intervention during the Minister's rather disgraceful speech, my hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr. Duncan Smith) was entirely right to point to the Prime Minister's statement after the Amsterdam European Council in June 1997. The Prime Minister told the House: getting Europe's voice heard more clearly in the world will not be achieved through merging...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, I, too, welcome the Ministers to their various new appointments, singular or plural as the case may be. I hope that the fact that a Minister has three responsibilities entitles him to a slightly larger office space within the House of Lords. We shall watch with interest to see what happens. I also welcome our new Foreign Secretary. I believe that it is particularly desirable to have...
Mike Gapes: ...to new hon. Members on their maiden speeches. I remember that there was an empty Chamber when I made my maiden speech on a Friday morning in 1992, while the Queen's Speech was being debated. It must be far more difficult to make such a speech to a House that is relatively full, at least on the Labour Benches. The Conservative Benches are rather empty at this moment. I wish to concentrate...
Bill Cash: I have no idea. The matter is one of historical record. Indeed it is already on the record, so I am saying nothing that has not been said already. The significance of all this is very simple: through Feira, St. Malo and Cologne we are moving towards not merely a rapid reaction force or enhanced Petersberg tasks, but a European army. I believe that it was Romano Prodi who said—I am...
Bill Cash: It is a case of a great deal of hot air. It is extremely difficult. We are moving from a cold war to a hot war, at any rate in so far as a vast amount of hot air is being generated. With rotation, the so-called military command structure is even more frightening. The amount of apparent capability supposedly generated will be as many as 240,000 troops, not the 60,000 that have been mentioned....
Lord Howe of Aberavon: My Lords, I shall follow the example of others and commence with a word of congratulations to the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, on her emergence in such a distinguished position. I look forward to hearing her in that enlarged capacity on future occasions. With great regret, I offer the House an apology because I may not be able to be present for the wind-up of the debate. I have a...
Lord Howell of Guildford: As I promised, at the start I set out that the amendments in the second group focus on Articles 17 and 25 of the Treaty on European Union, not the Treaty on the European Communities—we shall plunge into that later—for some reason that is not entirely clear to me. The amendments address Articles 17 and 25 which are concerned generally with common foreign and security policy and...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire: The noble Lord, Lord Howell, has built an extremely elaborate castle on the modest foundations of this amendment. First, I remind him that I was listening again—for the second time in two weeks—to a group of visiting American officials, who began by reminding us that the United States strongly supports a European security and defence policy. As one of them said, "We bought into this after...
Lord Howell of Guildford: We come to Amendment No. 35 which is concerned with Declaration 1 adopted by the conference. While these declarations are part of the command paper and are included in the treaty document they are not part of the treaty itself. This amendment is concerned with the first declaration which focuses on European security and defence policy. It states that, "the objective for the European Union is...
Richard Spring: The right hon. Lady knows perfectly well that there was never any intention to establish a separate command structure outside NATO, but if one looks at exactly what was agreed at Nice, one sees that it is entirely different. I remind her that, originally, the Prime Minister himself bitterly opposed the moves that arose out of St. Malo. That is on the record. The most practical thing that we...
Peter Viggers: The right hon. Member for Swansea, East (Donald Anderson) always has the ear of the House and we listen to his comments with great interest. Over the past dozen years, we have passed through three distinct phases of defence threat. The first was the cold war, when the Soviet Union built a wall to keep its people in. We faced the massive military threat of Russia, which had both conventional...
Robert Key: Absolutely. I remember it well, and I shall return to that. However, much of that housing development has taken place irrespective of the presence of the barrage. Some of the most consistently energetic waves in the world are found on the British and Irish coastlines. That is important because consistency is one of the problems that we face. It therefore makes good sense to exploit that...
Lord Howell of Guildford: My Lords, as I explained, the article to which the Minister referred is an editorial from The Times. That does not make much difference, but it was not just one journalist firing off; it was a considered piece by a team from a fairly distinguished newspaper. However, there is not much to be gained by contrasting that with a string of quotations about the importance—an importance that I...
Desmond Swayne: My hon. Friend's point is well made. It is not only a question of high-intensity war fighting—we have found armour to be extremely useful in peacekeeping operations in the Balkans. I am sure that Ministers will confirm that. I want to move on to an area of defence policy on which I am tempted to congratulate the Government almost unreservedly. [Interruption.] Wait for it. The position that...
Lord Watson of Richmond: ...Lords, it has been exhilarating and fascinating to serve on the sub-committee. Several things happened during its consideration of the issue. As the noble Lord, Lord Jopling, will remember, our first evidence was taken on 26th April, when we heard from Iain Duncan Smith, who was then shadow Secretary of State for Defence. His role has changed since then and I hope that, in this matter at...
