Lord Kingsland: My Lords, I have had only a very short time in which to glance at the Green Paper, which is 63 pages long. I believe that the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, has found himself in exactly the same boat. Inevitably, in skimming a document as weighty as this, one's eye is attracted to those passages in which one has been most concerned in one's political life. In those circumstances, when...
Lord Kingsland: I am most grateful to the noble Lord for his response to my noble friend Lady Carnegy of Lour. I take issue with him on one matter; Clause 149(2)(a) is clearly a satisfactory paragraph, because the exploitation of sea fisheries has to be carried out in a sustainable way. However, unlike fisheries, the standard for protecting the marine environment is different. The word "sustainable" is not...
Lord Kingsland: The right way to approach Clause 149 is to have a text which, as far as possible, mirrors Clause 2, which outlines the general objective of the MMO. We are faced with a difficulty because the current draft of Clause 2 is unsatisfactory. The Minister knows that the Opposition, the Liberal Democrats and certain distinguished figures from the Cross Benches have been seeking a version of Clause 2...
Lord Kingsland: My Lords, before expressing a view on this amendment, perhaps I may take the opportunity to set out the legislative background to the order. Section 2(1) of the Parliamentary Constituencies Act 1986 established, among other things, the Boundary Commission for England. Under Section 3(3) of the Act, the commission may submit to the Secretary of State a report recommending the way in which any...
Lord Kingsland: I am most grateful to the noble Baroness for her full response, which, it is fair to say, reflected the observations that she made two days ago at Second Reading. I should like to respond briefly to her remarks, as well as to the observations made by the noble Baroness, Lady Harris. I cannot overemphasise the degree of isolation of the DPP in the system. I have already drawn your Lordships'...
Lord Kingsland: I, and all Members who sit on this side of the Committee, echo everything that the Lord President said about the ruthless and cowardly killing that took place between Second Reading and today. It is tragic that on the first two occasions when the House has addressed this Bill, we have had to begin proceedings by expressing our condolences in that way. Let us hope that it will not happen...
Lord Kingsland: My Lords, I echo the remarks made by all noble Lords about the murders on Saturday night, which were as merciless as they were cowardly. Listening to all noble Lords, I have been very powerfully struck by the degree of unanimity around the House on devolution. Every single contributor has, directly or by implication, spoken of the desire to reinforce the durability of devolution and the...
Lord Kingsland: I think it is more like being a lion in a den of Daniels.
Lord Kingsland: I also gave notice of my intention to oppose the Question that Clause 50 stand part of the Bill. I am puzzled by the fact that the clause is being promoted by the Home Office. The Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007, to which it relates, was promoted by a department that is now part of the Department of Justice. The Home Office is a party to all immigration and asylum proceedings and...
Lord Kingsland: I very much appreciate the comprehensive way in which the noble Lord has dealt with this matter. Clause 88 goes right to the heart of the Bill. The purpose of the Bill is to sustain biodiversity and enhance the sustainability of our seas. Unless we have an effective remediation system, we will not succeed in reaching, let alone maintaining, this objective. I agree with the Minister and other...
Lord Kingsland: I am grateful to the Minister for his latest intervention.
Lord Kingsland: My observations are sympathetic to those already made by my noble friend Lord Cathcart and the noble Lord, Lord Tyler. I shall focus in particular on subsections (8) and (9). Subsection (8) states: "In subsection (7)(b) and (c), 'remedial steps' means steps taken (or to be taken)— (a) in consequence of the carrying on of the activity in respect of which the notice is issued, (b) for any of...
Lord Kingsland: My Lords, first, I thank the right honourable gentleman the Secretary of State for Justice for making his Statement available before this afternoon's debate. There are a number of political reasons why the right honourable gentleman should be embarrassed at having to make this Statement today. In particular, if he was going to exercise his veto, why did he wait to do so until after the appeal...
Lord Kingsland: I might say that I think that the Minister has given a well judged response to the questions that the second part of Clause 2 has raised. When looking at it, perhaps the Minister will bear in mind three possible angles. The first is the broad question of national interest. We may find that an interest from abroad, for reasons which might not be wholly bona fide, may make a demand that would...
Lord Kingsland: I, too, support the amendments in this group. They pick up, in a more practical manner, on a theme that has run through the debates on the Bill. Your Lordships are, I think, broadly agreed that the MMO must take its decisions on the basis of the best available scientific evidence. The question is: how does the MMO obtain such evidence? As both the noble Baroness, Lady Miller, and my noble...
Lord Kingsland: I briefly intervene in this, so far, short debate to ask the Minister whether he is satisfied that, if a function is delegated, the organisation to which the function is delegated shares the objectives of the MMO. The core of the earlier debates that we have had about the objective emphasised the importance of biodiversity and the ecosystem methodology that the MMO will apply to confront the...
Lord Kingsland: In his response, will the Minister say something about the relationship between guidance, directions by the Secretary of State under Clause 35, and the marine policy statement? They all issue from the Secretary of State. Is there a hierarchy? If so, what is the order of that hierarchy? In circumstances where guidance might conflict with directions or the marine policy statement, how is the...
Lord Kingsland: The Minister asked me, in broad terms, whether I found his reply helpful. I always find replies from the Minister helpful; and this case is no exception. However, if no amendments are tabled when we get to the clauses, perhaps a stand part debate might be appropriate to crystallise the way in which he sees this working. A bewildering amount of paper will be descending on the senior management...
Lord Kingsland: I am most grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. If I might seek to summarise the point that the noble Lord, Lord Oxburgh, was making today, it is that without science there would not be any point in the MMO. Without the science in relation to biodiversity, there would be no MMO. That is why science, in the respectful submission of the noble Lord, Lord Oxburgh, and in mine, has a position...
Lord Kingsland: In our first day in Committee, I promoted an amendment to Clause 2 that would require the Government to oblige the MMO, as one objective, to base all its decisions on the best available scientific research. However, I recognise that there are other admirable objectives that the MMO ought to pursue. I agree, therefore, with the draftsmen of both Amendments 32 and 33. Now, which parts of those...