Kevin Hollinrake: My principal concern is the amount of bureaucracy in and the interpretation of the Bill. I have many good lawyer friends—this usually has a “but” attached to it, doesn’t it?—but there are bound to be different interpretations of this kind of legislation. My hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Laura Farris) set that out very clearly. Let us take just the phrase “all...
Kevin Hollinrake: I certainly do not seek to do that. Proposed new section 187B(2) of the 1992 Act says: “The information to be disclosed is all information relating to the employer’s undertaking (including information relating to use of agency workers in that undertaking) which is in the employer’s possession, or that of an associated employer”. There is a double requirement, so “all information”...
Kevin Hollinrake: The hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) makes a very good point, and I have a lot of time for him generally. My point is a general point, but there are specifics underpinning it that we have to consider. The definition of “all information” is relevant, as is the definition of “less favourable” when considering whether an employment contract is now less favourable. That...
Kevin Hollinrake: The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point, but in my view it is better to have no legislation than poor legislation. It is important that we look at the Bill and decide whether it should go into Committee. As I was trying to say in response to the intervention by the hon. Member for Brent North, it is about capacity. We would be giving the Central Arbitration Committee huge responsibility, not...
Kevin Hollinrake: Yes, but it would require a huge scaling up of the role and there are no money resolutions attached to the Bill. [Interruption.] If I or any other person does not want to see this Bill passed, we have a perfect right to stand in this Chamber and express that opinion. That is exactly what I am doing. As I say, it is better to have no legislation than poor legislation. The capacity of...
Kevin Hollinrake: I would like to be able to, but I am not sure that is incumbent on anybody who opposes the Bill. It is right for somebody who introduces the Bill to state alongside it what extra capacity will be needed, and the cost of that to the taxpayer or the businesses concerned. To my knowledge, that work has not been done. I am also concerned about clause 27D, on the unilateral variation of employment...
Kevin Hollinrake: It is an interesting point, and I appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s clarification. My final point is on clause 187E, which seems to say that in almost any circumstance where new terms are offered, the employee has an automatic right to go to a tribunal. That seems to me strange. If any of the things outlined in subsection (1)(a)(iii) happened and an offer has been made, the clause seems to...
Kevin Hollinrake: My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech and some important points. She talks about the risk of moving to layoffs or redundancies, is there not also a danger that businesses will not recruit people in the first place or will not scale up because of the fear that employment legislation is so complex and is increasingly one-sided on behalf of workers? That would deter employment, which is...
Kevin Hollinrake: As somebody who is carrying a Westminster stone, I could definitely do with losing a few pounds myself. More than three decades ago, I was more than six stone heavier than I am today. I lost that weight without the need for airmiles and Nectar points. Does my hon. Friend agree that the most important factors in good health are personal discipline and personal responsibility?
Kevin Hollinrake: The hon. Member is making some very important points and this is a very important debate. He set out right at the start of his speech that he wants the UK to be the “best place to work”, and I agree with that. Does he agree that the UK should also be the best place to start and grow a business, because that is what creates the opportunities for work?
Kevin Hollinrake: I think we should do something in this area. It is an unacceptable practice, and a good employer would not resort to it. But on quantum, the poll in the ACAS document shows that less than 3% of HR professionals reported this. The figures quoted by the hon. Gentleman are across the entire working population. Most employers are not making redundancies or downsizing. So the quantum is far lower...
Kevin Hollinrake: Two hundred and twenty-five HR professionals.
Kevin Hollinrake: The hon. Gentleman highlights a shameful example, and he is right to do so. As the road to hell is paved with good intentions, particularly in terms of legislation, I am interested in his intentions with this Bill. I have watched him talk about the Bill on television a couple of times, and I think he said on Sky yesterday that it does not outlaw fire and rehire but ensures that the right...
Kevin Hollinrake: Will the hon. Gentleman give way on a technical point?
Kevin Hollinrake: The shadow Chancellor did present a short-term solution: a sixfold increase in the digital services tax. Does my hon. Friend agree that when we implemented the digital services tax, Amazon added that 2% straight on to the prices of the merchants on its site? Does he accept that if there were an increase, it would be passed directly to consumers?
Kevin Hollinrake: Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Kevin Hollinrake: Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Kevin Hollinrake: It is a pleasure to speak after the hon. Member for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson), and I agree with him that this conversation should be had with the engagement of business in order to find a solution. I have tried to do that over the last few years when we have debated this issue time and again. Of course, I have been in business for a number of years—three decades—and the No. 1 thing...
Kevin Hollinrake: As my hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and Battle (Huw Merriman) has just said, it was not laughter; it was astonishment. I have been in business for 30 years. Not every businessperson I meet votes Conservative, but the vast majority do, and I have not heard anybody say what the hon. Member for Glenrothes (Peter Grant) has just said—that the Conservative party is no longer the party of...
Kevin Hollinrake: rose—