Baroness Cumberlege: I will think about that. Having dealt with the Treasury in the past, I know how difficult it is to get anything ring-fenced. However, the noble Baroness's suggestion is very interesting and I will take it on board. We have examples of other consumer groups being very effective within their parent organisation. I think in particular of NICE, which has done a lot to get views on its work from...
Baroness Cumberlege: My Lords, I have listened to the debate, and some powerful arguments have been put forward for an independent HealthWatch England. However, I am not sure that that is the right answer. The noble Lord, Lord Harris, said that he feels that the Bill is setting up the new arrangements, and of course he is right. However, when one is setting up new arrangements, it is a good idea to look at what...
Baroness Cumberlege: My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Harris, for his history lesson. Perhaps I should not go on to the Commission for Patient and Public Involvement in Health. Perhaps he remembers that organisation, which never quite worked. I think that it did its best, but it failed to influence the Labour Government of the time. Perhaps it was a bit too strident. Maybe it was not canny...
Baroness Cumberlege: My Lords, I should like to make a short intervention to ask my noble friend one or two questions. When I was a Minister I was responsible for the Health of the Nation policy, which I much enjoyed. At the time we introduced the five-a-day programme. That was 21 years ago, so we can see how long it has taken to get that message deep into the psyche of the British people. There is something...
Baroness Cumberlege: Can I also ask the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, about his amendment, in which he proposes setting up another very strong bureaucracy? It is a corporate body, known as a clinical senate; I presume, because it has a proper officer, that it will have a range of officials. It is suggested that it should revalidate doctors within the area, but I am wondering how that would work with the GMC and others....
Baroness Cumberlege: I would like to support the noble Baroness, Lady Murphy. It is really rather a mixed bag of amendments that we have before us. Clearly what is proposed in the Bill is that there should be 11 members on the NHS Commissioning Board. Perhaps the most wonderful Primate-I hope that Hansard will allow me to make the change-and the right reverend Prelate will think that the number 11 has a certain...
Baroness Cumberlege: My Lords, I am very grateful for that intervention. I have no experience of gymnasts and, sadly, I cannot remember that particular time. However, I have chaired very big boards. I have chaired a board of 26 and it was a nightmare. It was a nightmare because we are such a lovely nation and we always try to get consensus. Trying to do that takes time and tough and speedy decisions are not...
Baroness Cumberlege: Does my noble friend agree, however, that when I was putting forward the case, I said that we would not negate democracy but that this was a method whereby we could give the Secretary of State more discretion when he wished to interfere-or, rather, not to interfere but to let local people run the service? As a manager, I know that if you are going to achieve things you have to win the hearts...
Baroness Cumberlege: That sounds very suggestive, my Lords.
Baroness Cumberlege: My Lords, I very strongly support the spirit of Clause 4, and I oppose the amendment that the clause should no longer stand part of the Bill. I accept that it could be amended and could be clearer, but I want to hold to its spirit. In the past I have put down six amendments to two major health Bills in an attempt to achieve something similar to what is in Clause 4. I have to say that my...
Baroness Cumberlege: My Lords, I thought that that was the whole purpose of Committee stage. This stage is intended to question some of these concerns and to see whether a resolution can be achieved.
Baroness Cumberlege: I am very grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, who has put the matter eloquently and correctly. I am very much in favour of my noble friend's wish to try to get some negotiation. As the noble Baroness said, many of us feel that that is the way forward. This is a difficult issue. It is trying to get the balance right between, on the one hand, the accountability and responsibilities...
Baroness Cumberlege: My Lords, I have not seen any evidence from MORI or any other polling organisation that has put that question to the public, so it is left in the air. I have seen the MORI poll that very recently showed that 88 per cent of people who were questioned said that doctors were the most trusted profession to tell the truth, whereas only 14 per cent thought that the truth was told by politicians. I...
Baroness Cumberlege: My Lords, I would like to make a contribution. I was very interested that the noble Lord, Lord Warner, said in his introduction that he felt that integration was sometimes used as a defence against competition. He cited Kaiser Permanente, as did the noble Lord, Lord Patel. Closer to home, I was really interested to see that Assura Cambridge-Assura is an independent company-was involved in an...
Baroness Cumberlege: My Lords, I should like to ask a few questions about Amendment 10A. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, for her introduction, but we do not yet have a precise definition of what she means by area-based populations. All sorts of different services have different catchment areas. At the beginning, the noble Baroness cited family planning services. She said that she felt that perhaps it was...
Baroness Cumberlege: My Lords, this is the first time that I have entered this Committee debate, so I declare an interest as the executive director of Cumberlege Connections, which is a training company. I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Owen, for mentioning micromanagement, because a lot of our debate stretches beyond just the accountability of the Secretary of State to the organisations that are going...
Baroness Cumberlege: That is true up to a point, but can you imagine, when the Secretary of State receives that information, that he will do nothing about it? That would be extremely unlikely. The other thing I would like to say is about the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Hennessy, on ambiguity and clarity. It seems quite strange to put a word into this Bill that is archaic and no longer used. It no longer...
Baroness Cumberlege: My Lords, I declare an interest as executive director of Cumberlege Connections, which is a training organisation. I am also a fellow of three royal colleges and have associations with a number of health charities. "The GPs of the future ...working closely with social services, should have a wonderful chance to organise the complete care of the community". Those are not my words but those of...
Baroness Cumberlege: To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they are taking to reduce the number of fractures which result from osteoporosis.
Baroness Cumberlege: My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his comprehensive reply and welcome the progress that has been made. We must bear in mind that last year alone, some 65,000 people were admitted to hospitals for hip fractures, which represents an increase of 17 per cent on the previous decade and is one of the highest figures in Europe. Will my noble friend ensure that the outcomes framework currently...