Alistair Darling: My hon. Friend is right. It came as a shock to many of us to hear that even the Ministry of Defence computers had been penetrated on two occasions. Although the Minister of State told me that it was low-grade information and that security was not threatened, it was nevertheless information on a Ministry of Defence file. A computer containing information on 40 million people—goodness knows...
Alistair Darling: The Secretary of State appears to be telling us that the provisions of this clause are not new and, because section 2 of the 1911 Act covers just about everything, this must be an improvement. However, clause 3 appears to be breaking new ground. It singles out international relations—a very wide definition of international relations—for a new form of secrecy. 11.30 pm As the Secretary...
Alistair Darling: I am not sure how that assists us. If one looks at clause 3(6) for a definition of confidentiality, one sees, among other things, that it says: while the circumstances in which it was obtained make it reasonable for the State or organisation to expect that it would be so held". We can see exactly what would happen. If someone suddenly revealed that something untoward was going on, all that...
Alistair Darling: This is a ridiculously short debate in which to discuss a provision that will shroud much of our lives in secrecy. I congratulate the hon. Member for Lancashire, West (Mr. Hind) on his valiant defence of the Government. When the Bill has received its Third Reading he should get a prize for being the only Tory Back Bencher to support the Government regularly. It is frightening that so much of...
Alistair Darling: I do not have time to give way, because the Minister must be given time to reply. If the Minister says that the clause is badly drafted or needs tighter definition, I am sure that the Government could so arrange things when the Bill goes to the other place or comes back here. The definition of international relations is so widely drawn that it will strike at just about everything, and that...
Alistair Darling: The Minister does not seem happy with his lot. As robberies on the London Underground doubled in the last three years, and the clear-up rate has fallen from 20 per cent. to 12 per cent., and bearing in mind the British Rail survey that showed that many women travel in fear on trains, will the Home Secretary lend more police to the British Transport police, or will his shoddy and short-sighted...
Alistair Darling: Does the Secretary of State accept that as resources will be limited—as they always will be under this Government if they remain in office—the pressure on school boards to ensure that the parents of children they accept are capable of raising money by contributions or through fund raising will be immense? As in private schools at the moment, parents will be invited to raise more of the...
Alistair Darling: May I return to the point that I tried to press earlier? What will a board do if it simply cannot make ends meet on the grant that it receives from central Government because the average is not sufficient? Will it raise funds from other sources or will it be required to pay off staff? What will happen?
Alistair Darling: As DNA testing has shown that many people were wrongly refused entry to this country, does the Minister accept that DNA testing could eliminate queues and paperwork and save vast amounts of money and that to impose high charges will simply erect a financial barrier in place of a bureaucratic barrier? The Minister says that the test may not be compulsory, but does he not accept that it may be...
Alistair Darling: Private practice.
Alistair Darling: Is it not the height of arrogance for the Secretary of State to accuse doctors of scaring old ladies? Is he not aware of the fact that many general practitioners in Scotland and throughout the whole country are extremely concerned at the prospect of being forced to increase their list size and of having to become accountants and to regard elderly patients, in particular, not as patients to be...
Alistair Darling: I have.
Alistair Darling: I welcome the fact that the Secretary of State has been willing to explain some of the matters that have been discussed in the Trevi group over the past few months and years. However, several matters have been discussed in the Trevi group and other groups within Europe, but the Home Secretary has nut touched upon them. I hope that the Minister will answer some of our questions. The document...
Alistair Darling: My hon. Friend makes a good point. I was going to refer to it slightly later. The Home Secretary did not refer to what harmonisation is proposed. As the matter has been raised, I hope that the Minister will tell us which rules are to be followed. Are they to be those of the United Kingdom or of West Germany, for example? Their rules on asylum seekers are rather different. If we are saying...
Alistair Darling: The hon. Gentleman misunderstands the position. I am not suggesting that that is what the Labour party is advocating. I am saying that that is what the document contemplates. When admitted to the EEC, one will be admitted to every country within it. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman might also appreciate that, in theory, after 1992 every citizen of the EEC could come to this country and live here...
Alistair Darling: I did not examine each of the 300,000 names, but I was given the opportunity to see how the system worked. The information seemed to be simply remarks made by officers, entered against the person's name. When I was there, I saw how it worked against one individual. When the immigration officer looked at the information, he saw that all that had happened was that every time that person had...
Alistair Darling: My hon. Friend raises an important point. The more information that is held on computers and the more that third parties that can get access to it, the greater the scope for abuse. For the sake of accuracy, I should point out that the staff in the intelligence unit are Home Office staff and are not employed by a private company. The Group 4 staff are employed in the detention unit at...
Alistair Darling: No, I shall not give way because this is a short debate. We believe that the free movement of people should mean that people are free to move unless there is good reason to curtail, prevent or temporarily stop them. The onus must be on those who want to make that stop to make their case. Without clearly stated rules, without review, accountability and supervision, the proposals would bring...
Alistair Darling: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Alistair Darling: I am almost sorry that I am here, as I am a lawyer. I think that I am the only lawyer in the House. I can only assume that all the others are doing precisely what my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) said that they are doing. I apologise for the fact that my hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead, East (Ms. Quin) is not here. I am sorry that she is not here and she will be...