Mr Keith Bradley: My hon. Friend is right. We are debating the loss of taxpayers' money that could be used for other purposes, and especially to help those in the greatest need. Any loss of revenue disadvantages the country generally. We should clamp down on tax fraud and general fraud wherever it appears.
Mr Keith Bradley: The hon. Gentleman was clearly not listening. I have made quite the opposite point—that the issues are not separate, and that we should look at the total loss of revenue. We should be even-handed in stamping out social security fraud or fraud in any other aspect of public or private life. The debate has concentrated on organised fraud, which is the cause of most of the abuse. As the...
Mr Keith Bradley: I have made the Labour party's position clear, and it does the hon. Gentleman no credit to undervalue the need to ensure that people who are justly entitled to benefits receive them. The figures that I have quoted clearly show that there is a vast amount of under-claiming of benefits.
Mr Keith Bradley: No, I will not give way at the moment, as I must continue with my speech. I hope that the Government—
Mr Keith Bradley: I am sure that my hon. Friend the hon. Member for Islington, North (Mr. Corbyn) will be able to make some salient points later. I am representing a vast number of Members of Parliament here this morning, and my hon. Friend will be helping me considerably. I seek from the Minister an assurance that the publicity campaign to ensure that people receive their entitlements is not undermined by...
Mr Keith Bradley: I understand whay you are saying, Madam Deputy Speaker. I can only say that many of my constituents who have been to see me over lack of access to the social fund have said that they feel that it is fraudulent that they have not been able to receive help from the social fund. Within that broad context of fraud, I am discussing the inadequacies of the social fund. The Secretary of State said...
Mr Keith Bradley: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I shall be brief on that point. We must ensure that, in the pressure to root out fraud, we do not also root out genuine claims, whether for unemployment benefit, social fund payments or any other benefit. One worrying aspect of the changes in working practices within the social security benefit offices is the move to market testing. The social security fraud...
Mr Keith Bradley: Is the hon. Lady suggesting that GPs are falsely giving sick notes to sickness benefits claimants?
Mr Keith Bradley: How much were you paid for it?
Mr Keith Bradley: Can the hon. Lady tell the House the precise number of single parents in the position that she described? Precisely how many claimants is she talking about, and what is her source for that statistic?
Mr Keith Bradley: This has been an interesting, wide-ranging and informative debate. I intend to be brief in winding up because I want to hear the Minister comment on the many points that have been made. I hope that he will allow me to intervene in his speech, if appropriate, to clarify some of his answers. Listening to the debate, I felt that I was in a no-win situation because I thought that I had made it...
Mr Keith Bradley: I shall happily give way to the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam so that she can confirm that she hears what I say, has watched my lips, and will now accept the Labour party's position on the matter.
Mr Keith Bradley: I could not have been clearer in stating the Labour party's position on clamping down on fraud, wherever it may be, but—I was accused earlier of not saying "but" so I shall stress it now—the hon. Lady is wrong because most fraud is organised rather than perpetrated by individual claimants. If she can quote figures to the contrary, I shall accept a further intervention, but mere...
Mr Keith Bradley: Right.
Mr Keith Bradley: If the hon. Gentleman wishes to intervene on that specific point, I shall give way.
Mr Keith Bradley: I do not wish to enter a dialogue across the Chamber, because I am sure that you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, would quickly intervene, but the hon. Gentleman's figures did not undermine my basic contention that the vast amount of fraud throughout the social security system—housing benefit, council tax and social security benefits—is organised. That is what the Government have been concentrating...
Mr Keith Bradley: Although I agree with what the Minister has said, will he confirm, so that we do not again get matters out of context, that the numbers of people who apply for political asylum are small, so that the amount that we are talking about is equally small?
Mr Keith Bradley: How many local authorities have achieved their targets at the lower level and at the higher level?
Mr Keith Bradley: My question was asked in the light of the Minister's statement that the Government believe that the targets are appropriate. Clearly, we need to know how appropriate. We need to know what performance levels local authorities are achieving against the targets. I believe that an answer may now be winging its way to us.
Mr Keith Bradley: The Minister's comment slid off his lips, as we were expecting the answer from somewhere else. He said that he would write and tell me which local authorities had achieved their targets. Perhaps when he sees that information, he may be in a better position to review the targets.