Mr Herbert Williams: Having regard to the terms of the Question and answer, may I ask what is the significance of the statement that an hon. Member is responsible for the accuracy of the statements made in his Question?
Mr Herbert Williams: asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance when it is proposed to publish an Order in Council modifying the provisions of Section 56 of the National Insurance Act, whereby, so far as Ministers of the Crown are concerned, they are not to be treated in the same way as if their employer were a private person.
Mr Herbert Williams: Under Section 56, Ministers of the Crown are deemed to be employed as though they were employed by a private person. Why are they treated otherwise?
Mr Herbert Williams: Will my right hon. Friend tell the House how long it has been established in this country that the Monarch cannot dismiss a Minister?
Mr Herbert Williams: asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance the number of old-age and retirement pensions; the annual cost of these pensions; and the estimated annual rate of increase.
Mr Herbert Williams: Does that include old-age pensioners who are a charge on the Treasury Estimate?
Mr Herbert Williams: Has my hon. and learned Friend seen the publicity issued by the Coal Board on the screens at theatres, in which it appeals to me and other people to buy our coal before 13th June, because it will be 10s. cheaper per ton? How is that fact reconciled with my hon. and learned Friend's answer?
Mr Herbert Williams: I have listened to this debate with great care and my mind is considerably confused. I am looking at this matter as an engineer and not as a lawyer. It is sought to leave out the words …such regulations as appear to him to be expedient… In the first place I do not suppose any Minister would make regulations which did not appear to be expedient, and, therefore, the words do not seem to be...
Mr Herbert Williams: The right hon. Gentleman has not dealt with my point, that these regulations might raise a conflict as to who is to inspect first, whether a veterinary surgeon or a sanitary inspector, and so on. The Minister might act in a way clearly undesirable, which might not be spotted in this House, and the courts would be entitled to say that he had gone beyond his powers because he had made...
Mr Herbert Williams: They do not have any pubs opened on Sunday in Wales, but they go in by the back door.
Mr Herbert Williams: I have just done that and all the guidance I got from reading it was that Clauses 9 and 10 were passed without any comment.
Mr Herbert Williams: There is no need to go further into that aspect. It is clear that hon. Members could have gone to the extent of voting against this Clause if they had wanted to do so. It is no use coming here and saying, as the hon. Gentleman the Member for Heston and Isleworth (Mr. R. Harris) has said. "I did not get a chance."
Mr Herbert Williams: This is the first time I have heard the hon. Member for Heston and Isleworth saying that he has any reserve about himself at all. Whenever I have known him, he has been prepared to jump into the bath even before he knew there was any water in it. I am surprised to hear that he should come along now and say, "If I had only had the chance, if I had only been a little quicker on the uptake, if...
Mr Herbert Williams: I should be out of order if I started cross-talk with hon. Gentleman opposite and so I will try to keep in order. Nevertheless, I am surprised that my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Park (Mr. Mulley) should have allowed himself to be inveigled into this position. I am sorry now that I did not speak to him, because I had a premonition, based on experience, that once we had to start...
Mr Herbert Williams: It is no use my hon. Friend shaking his head. Even the Parliamentary Secretary, dancing among the tulips this morning, accepted that. Indeed, I have never seen the hon. Gentleman so lightly—[An HON. MEMBER: "On tiptoe."] Yes, on tiptoe this morning. I do not know what he was advocating. I think he had come to the conclusion that he had to do something and so he went both ways. But even the...
Mr Herbert Williams: The hon. Gentleman should agree not to vote against the Amendment.
Mr Herbert Williams: I do not know what the hon. Member for Croydon, East is talking about. I have tried several times to understand his interventions, but I cannot make head or tail of them. I know he is not speaking in Welsh and I cannot understand his English. On behalf of this body, and on behalf of public opinion generally, I am expressing my objection to the fact that my hon. Friend should have compromised...
Mr Herbert Williams: I am going to listen to my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield. Park, who has been very diligent, and. unlike the hon. Member for Heston and Isleworth (Mr. R. Harris) has been very diligent and courageous with regard to this Bill and has said all he wanted to say not only here but in Committee as well. If my hon. Friend says that he will try to do something I will consider it seriously. In...
Mr Herbert Williams: Like the hon. Member for Droylsden (Mr. W. R. Williams), I have never filled in a football coupon. I have occasionally had a ready-money bet at a race meeting, otherwise 1 should not mind which horse won. The last time I did so was under the auspices of the 'hon. Member for Lincoln (Mr. de Freitas), and that was three years ago. I cannot be called very much of a racing man.
Mr Herbert Williams: The hon. Gentleman did not seek to restrain me. The attitude of many people on the subject of betting is a complete fraud. All sorts of people vote against national lotteries here, but I have seen them betting later on on the Continent. It is interesting that what is known as the "hard-faced" Parliament in 1920, as it was called by hon. Members opposite —
