Mr Andrew Hargreaves: My hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Staffordshire (Mr. Fabricant) has made a good point. Had he been at Crufts last weekend and met members of the Kennel Club and others, such as breeders, he would realise that, although there is general support for the Bill's principles, there is serious concern about its scope.
Mr Andrew Hargreaves: My hon. Friend was rather dismissive of the subject of footpaths, but many footpaths lead out of villages into country areas. They should surely be excluded for the same reasons, because they are not the sort of places where people might grovel around on the ground catching terrible diseases. People are likely to be wearing suitable footwear and stepping over and between puddles, mud and...
Mr Andrew Hargreaves: My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point: whether local authorities are exercising the powers already given to them, and whether those powers are sufficient. He raised the point whether, if we give them these sweeping and centralising powers, they would be exercised sensitively. That comes back to the point that we raised earlier.
Mr Andrew Hargreaves: It is not simply a sporting argument. My hon. Friend referred to woodland. In Birmingham, there is quite a large area of council-owned woodland. It is amenity land. I refer to the woodland—Moseley bog—that is adjacent to my house in Hall Green. It is ecologically important. It is a genuine bog in the middle of a city. One could not reasonably classify it as wood for woodland purposes. It...
Mr Andrew Hargreaves: I am grateful for the opportunity to speak to the amendments. Let me refer the House back to amendments Nos. 1 to 6 in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Mr. Hunter). I am concerned that those amendments should not mitigate unfairly against those who would normally walk their dogs on river walks and towpaths. I seek clarification from my hon. Friend that the authority,...
Mr Andrew Hargreaves: I fully take on board my hon. Friend's comments. I am certain that dog owners are likely to be far more careful in conservation areas than the bands of politically correct people who, from an urban perspective, seek to impose restrictions on so many others. I ask my hon. Friend to clarify the situation in regard to footways, footpaths and green lanes, which are covered by amendments Nos. 2,...
Mr Andrew Hargreaves: I entirely accept my hon. Friend's point, which reinforces his earlier remark that dogs should be wormed at regular intervals, in accordance with a vet's recommendations. Then, human health would not be at risk. I would welcome more action in that regard.
Mr Andrew Hargreaves: They would be covered by the Bill, unless my hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke can reassure me that they are excluded by amendments Nos. 2, 3, 7 and 8. I share the concern of my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield (Mr. Winterton), because the towpaths that run alongside canals and riverways in Birmingham are used by thousands of people. Dog owners are sometimes accompanied by...
Mr Andrew Hargreaves: My hon. Friend makes a good point. Although we want to encourage all owners to act responsibly in ensuring that dogs do not defecate where people are likely to walk, the Bill's scope is too wide. I am sure that my hon. Friend will further explain amendments Nos. 2, 3, 7 and 8, but I am not sure that they adequately cover my concerns. I am concerned also that amendment No. 4 excludes national...
Mr Andrew Hargreaves: My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point. I would include large villages in an urban or suburban context. It is entirely proper for regulations to cover streets, pavements, squares, village greens, football and other recreation grounds—but I oppose the suggestion that every village that borders on a national park or is outside one should be encompassed by the Bill. That would be...
Mr Andrew Hargreaves: I am using Kennel Club registrations. I am certain that the people with whom I discussed the Bill at Crufts last weekend will take up the hon. Lady's remarks with their Members of Parliament and that the size of her mailbag will increase significantly. I discussed the issues raised by the Bill with members of a Kennel Club committee who were at Crufts—I am not sure which—and with a large...
Mr Andrew Hargreaves: Does my hon. Friend accept that in many areas within the national parks speed limits are 30 mph rather than 40 mph? Therefore, the amendment tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Bromsgrove (Mr. Thomason) is justified.
Mr Andrew Hargreaves: Does not my hon. Friend accept, however, that it has come to a pretty pass when the only subject that we can debate is where and when dogs may defecate? If that is what Parliament has come to, my hon. Friend and I—and perhaps you, Mr. Deputy Speaker—ought to do something about it.
Mr Andrew Hargreaves: It is an eminently sensible suggestion. May I commend my hon. Friend for amendment No. 20 regarding the speed limit? On many roads in and outside national parks—such as in almost the whole of the New forest, and in the Lake district—with a speed limit, technically, of 30 mph, one may expect traffic to travel at least at that speed, because there are long open straights and nothing to be...
Mr Andrew Hargreaves: The more my hon. Friend talks about clause 1, the more horrified I am by its concept. Do I understand that whole areas of Richmond park, which have been enjoyed for centuries by the public—whether by themselves or for walking their dogs—are to be poop-scoop zones? Are the forests of Exmoor to be poop-scoop zones? Are my constituents and other people to crash round the undergrowth with a...
Mr Andrew Hargreaves: My hon. Friend is being a little disingenuous. Can he recollect there ever having been a power given to local authorities that they have not, in the pursuit of modern political correctness, instigated with immediate appetite? This is the nanny state gone mad. I beg my hon. Friend to reconsider the clause.
Mr Andrew Hargreaves: It may be that my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham (Mr. Atkinson) was quite realistically intimating that those who are engaged in a riding. school might have dogs in attendance when they are mounted. They might find it somewhat difficult—if they are in charge of a small gaggle of children mounted on ponies—to solemnly dismount at an awkward moment and poop their scoop, or scoop their...
Mr Andrew Hargreaves: I am grateful for the opportunity to speak to the Bill. Perhaps unusually, I wish to associate myself with everything that the hon. Member for Southwark and Bermondsey (Mr. Hughes) said. I fully endorse the principle and purpose of the Bill. It is common ground among all hon. Members that noise is an increasingly prevalent complaint with which we have to deal at our surgeries. Like the hon....
Mr Andrew Hargreaves: I entirely endorse that point. We must have uniform standards and guidelines which establish a duty of responsibility on local authorities and by which they can be measured, in the same way as charters measure other areas of responsibility. It is perfectly reasonable to do that for local authorities. Confiscation is extremely important. The suggestion that we have heard from the hon. Member...
Mr Andrew Hargreaves: I am simply saying that the balance in the Bill is wrong. People should be subject to a greater penalty for making noise at night rather than accidental noise that may be caused during the day. I hope that my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, North will consider that. It is wrong that those who create noise and disturb other people's sleep and quiet at night are subject to a smaller penalty...
