Mr Denzil Davies: Of course the European Parliament sometimes agrees laws for the whole of Europe, but I was referring to the nation state and the democracy of our nation state. If a proposition is made in the Council of Ministers and is carried by the votes of Governments other than the British Government, who vote against the proposition, and a law is made as a result of that vote, that law will be imposed...
Mr Denzil Davies: I am not party to Mr. Fischer's correspondence—I was merely quoting from an interesting and open speech. At least he was honest, which is more than can be said, unfortunately, for many British politicians in relation to the EU. Mr. Fischer's interesting views may not have been German Government policy, but, as I tried to show, they were echoed by Jacques Delors, a distinguished President of...
Mr Denzil Davies: No, I am coming to an end. Perhaps before long the member states of Europe will call a halt to the process, but they had better do it soon. If not, there will not be much left to halt.
Mr Denzil Davies: I appreciate that the debate must end at 10 pm, but I want to ask my hon. Friend the Minister for Europe one or two questions. We are considering an important change, which could be relevant to the general agreement on trade and services and the intellectual property aspect of the Uruguay round. One of the few occasions when the European Court of Justice supported member states was when it...
Mr Denzil Davies: I thought that it was paragraph 5 of article 11, which, as my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Mr. Bryant) says, can be found on page 16. However, I may be wrong about that.
Mr Denzil Davies: The first amendment in this group is No. 54. I have always found it useful if the hon. Member moving an amendment reads out the bit that locates the text to be amended. In this case, it is clause 1, page 1, line 9. The amendment states: "after 'to', insert '4 and 6 to'"— which I assume means "to 10". The numbers refer to paragraphs in article 2. I am sure that I will be corrected if I am...
Mr Denzil Davies: I am not sure about that, although I do not criticise my hon. Friend. Article 100 comes under title VII entitled "Economic and monetary policy". Chapter 1 is entitled "Economic policy" and starts with article 98, I am sorry to tell my hon. Friend. Article 98 contains the terrible paragraph that upset the Irish. The powers in article 98.4 caused the Commission to issue a recommendation to the...
Mr Denzil Davies: That could be the case. We would like to know why we find concern about the supply of products in article 100. What sort of measures could be deemed appropriate? Paragraph 1 of article 100 does not mention money, although it could be referring to state aids. I am sure that the Foreign Office is well aware of these things and that there are bundles of papers in the basement somewhere to...
Mr Denzil Davies: Perhaps my hon. Friend is now about to mention state aids. I do not see where it fits in.
Mr Denzil Davies: I am glad that my hon. Friend is presuming that. I have discovered in debates over 30 years on these treaties that one should presume as little as possible. It may well be to do with state aids. The money seems to be coming from the other countries—financial assistance is given to the member state. I thought that state aid was given by the member state to itself. I am not sure about that,...
Mr Denzil Davies: I would like to give my hon. Friend my copy of the treaty. This is not about aid to Turkey but to other member states. The treaty says "the Council, acting by a qualified majority on a proposal from the Commission, may grant, under certain conditions, Community financial assistance to the Member State concerned." That does not mean Turkey, unless Turkey is a member state.
Mr Denzil Davies: I thought that my hon. Friend was assuming that Turkey was outside. In any case, the assistance goes to the member state. What exceptional circumstances, apart from national disasters, did the draftsmen have in mind?
Mr Denzil Davies: The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. It may have been under article 100, or perhaps it was under the common agricultural policy, that assistance was given to the United Kingdom in respect of BSE. No doubt the Minister will tell us what is meant by "exceptional circumstances." I come back to the important point before us. We have given up the veto again. The Government argue that it is...
Mr Denzil Davies: My hon. Friend mentioned that those arrangements can be carried out only as a last resort. That is correct—it is what the treaty says—but if the UK is to maintain its veto and announce that it is maintaining its veto on direct taxation changes, the case rapidly becomes one of last resort for other member states. Because there are vetoes on taxation changes, the Commission has produced a...
Mr Denzil Davies: I was referring to direct taxation. The so-called "paper" is a legal document that was sent by the Commission to the Council of Ministers and Mr. Solana. It is not just a paper, but a proposal on taxation for the next few years. My hon. Friend may agree with its proposals, but he should not denigrate an extremely important document that has to be addressed by the members of the Council...
Mr Denzil Davies: If we were outside the EU, we would be outside the Euro-taxation area. In theory, after the treaty is accepted, it will be possible for 14 countries to accede to enhanced co-operation on taxation and the United Kingdom's veto will be of no avail. Without enhanced co-operation, if 14 countries declare their determination to harmonise taxes, the United Kingdom would in theory—it might be...
Mr Denzil Davies: Circumstances change. I well remember the arguments for the common agricultural policy during the debate on the European Communities Act 1972. One of the reasonable arguments made was that Europe needed a common agricultural policy to protect its food production so that it would always have a supply within that tariff area. Many people accepted that argument. Well, the world has changed;...
Mr Denzil Davies: I did not like to digress, Sir Michael, or you might have said that I was out of order. "Secretary-General" I do not mind. "Secretary" would be all right, but everyone is a secretary-general these days. But not "high representative" please. If we are getting rid of flummery and diplomatic language and adopting plain speaking, let us drop these rather silly titles. That is a small and perhaps...
Mr Denzil Davies: That is the object of the arrangements. I should not have thought that non-participating states would wish to interfere and impede. They could not do so, anyway. On indirect taxation, the document states: "the possibility of enhanced co-operation could provide a way forward in the area of environmental and energy taxation. A majority of Member States have indicated their strong desire to make...
Mr Denzil Davies: I have the best evidence in the world. The Deputy Secretary-General of the European Commission does not write frivolous letters to a so-called high representative. These people are top cats.
